From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Thu Nov 2 08:29:35 1995 From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:29:35 +1100 (EST) Subject: Canonical answer about getting v6 & v7 source Message-ID: <9511012229.AA16683@dolphin> Firstly, welcome to some new members of the old unix mailing list. If you don't get this email, please let me know ;-) I received an email back from Dennis Ritchie about getting a v6/v7 license (for those who don't have one). Here is his full reply: From: Dennis Ritchie To: Warren Toomey Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:40:55 EST Subject: canonical answer about Sixth and Seventh Edition So far as I can determine, AT&T doesn't think it has the right to issue new licenses for any Unix editions, and won't do so. Several years ago, the Unix IP was transferred to Unix Systems Laboratories, at first as a mostly-owned subsidiary; USL was then sold to Novell, and recently Novell agreed to sell its Unix business to SCO (and HP is partially involved). As of the end of October 1995 this last sale had not been consummated. In other words, AT&T is out of the Unix business, and has been for some time; any licenses will have to come from the current owner. But the "current owner" is itself in flux, and I doubt that even before the latest sale, Novell was quite geared up to issue Seventh Edition licenses; I have no useful suggestions about how to obtain one officially (it might be interesting to try). Official sources in AT&T have said that they have no objection to reissuance of Lions's commentaries and source publication of the Sixth Edition. Dennis So it doesn't look like good news at the moment; I guess we could approach SCO and HP, and ask about trying to get licenses from them. I'll see what I can do. A few other people mentioned that they would like to get stuff from the archive of early Unixes that I'm maintaining, and how to prove that they have a license. I have no idea how to do this, any suggestions? P.S There isn't a Sixth Edition in the archive as yet, can anyone send me a distribution or bootable disk image? Cheers all, Warren Toomey From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Nov 3 09:21:10 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:21:10 +1100 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <9511022321.AA09085@dolphin> hello From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Nov 3 09:24:09 1995 From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:24:09 +1100 (EST) Subject: Licensed PDP Unix Archive ftpable Message-ID: <9511022324.AA09122@dolphin> All, A few quick notes about the PDP Unix archive effort. Dennis has sent in Fifth Edition, and both he and Ken Wellsch have sent in Sixth Edition. I've set up ftp access to the archive of licensed stuff. To get in, email me and I will send you back a username/password plus details. Cheers, Warren From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Thu Nov 9 15:02:51 1995 From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:02:51 +1100 (EST) Subject: Another PDP Unix program Message-ID: <9511090502.AA00022@dolphin> Hi, Firstly, this old unix mailing list is damn quiet - I'm the only one talking. If you have any questions, ideas etc., mail them to oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au. I'm away all of next week for a holiday, but will be back after that. Steven Schultz has promised 2.11BSD for the PDP Unix archive, and I'm also talking with Keith Bostic, as he has some stuff of interest. There is also a new PDP-11 simulator; this one runs a.out binaries directly, and passes the syscalls directly to the native operating system. You can pick it up at: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz If anybody can fix the bugs mentioned in the README, please let me know! See you all again soon! Warren From risner at heathers.stdio.com Thu Nov 9 23:19:36 1995 From: risner at heathers.stdio.com (James Risner) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST Subject: No subject Message-ID: <199511091319.IAA02121@heathers.stdio.com> Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11. I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive? Risner From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Thu Nov 9 20:19:12 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:19:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Disk image file --> RK05 Message-ID: I posted this query to vmsnet.pdp-11 and alt.sys.pdp11, but following Warren's complaint that noone was talking on oldunix at minnie I'll ask you lot too ... I have on my PC hard disk a couple of rk05 disk images (from Warren's archive, naturally). Question is, how to get them onto a real rk05 ... the real PDP beats the emulator any day after all ... Naturally someone has workedout how to extract RK05 images to files to put on the archive site. I'm wondering if anyone has solved the reverse problem yet ... I could split up the file into moderate sized pieces (say 250k, RX01 sized bits), boot the PDP (RT11) off RX01 floppy, start kermit and transfer a file piece from the PC to the other PDP floppy drive. Then I could mount a fresh RK05 pack, format etc. and run some crafty code to write the file to the appropriate place on the 'raw' RK05 device. What do you think? Another correspondent mentioned that Kermit may be able to write to "raw" devices directly, allowing me to transfer the file all in one piece. I'm still waiting for confirmation of that -- seems a little unlikely to me, but I've been suprised before. My system is: 11/34a 1 x RK05 (2.5Mb removable type, RK05f I think - or is it j?) 1 x RX01 128Kword As you can see, backing store is in short supply ;) I'd sooner avoid writing too much Macro-11 at present, so if the problem is already solved, I'd love to know how ... Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue, the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 10 04:11:19 1995 From: robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:11:19 GMT Subject: Register of machines Message-ID: <138@falstaf.demon.co.uk> Dear All, I have just had a note from someone who wants to get RK05 stuff on to his system but might be in a position where his current setup can't do it. This sort of stuff might be helped if people submitted a register of what kit they have. This could allow people in reasonable geographic location to help each other out. FOr instance, if some one had a unix system that an rk05 could be plugged into then they could do this and then give the rk05's back once they had the stuff copied over. To start it off. I have: 1*11/73 (1.5MByte) 2*RD54 1*DHV11 1*TK50 Running 2.11 BSD. I also have 1*Compaq 386 (486 Cyrix chip) running FreeBSD I live in Gloucestershire UK and am willing to help anybody in copying stuff that I can. I can get access to 0.5inch mag tape RA60 and RL02 if necessary. Cheers Robin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Robin Birch EMail robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Fri Nov 10 19:47:43 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space) Message-ID: It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX require separate I+D space? Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue, the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE Fri Nov 10 20:23:55 1995 From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:55 +0100 (MET) Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space) In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: > >It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support >separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not >suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX >require separate I+D space? Steve Schoultz is really the one to answer this question, but I seem to remember that BSD2.9 was the last version which worked on non-I/D-space systems. Johnny From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE Fri Nov 10 20:23:03 1995 From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:03 +0100 (MET) Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST Message-ID: >Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11. >I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive? I think it should go there, anyway. Johnny From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com Sat Nov 11 02:46:36 1995 From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:46:36 -0800 Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space) Message-ID: <199511101646.IAA18106@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Bob - > From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) > > It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support > separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not > suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX > require separate I+D space? The last version of UNIX for the PDP11 which stood a chance of running on a non split machine was 2.9BSD. I'd expect it to be a very tight fit though because even on a split I/D machine we ended up overlaying the kernel (but then even V7 took overlays to fit - which we hacked into the kernel, at least in the environment here). A long long time ago I did squish a V7 system into an 11/23 - not a pretty sight, each command you ran caused the others on the system to be swapped out (do a "ls -l" and watch the shell get swapped, when the 'ls' finished then the shell would be swapped back in, etc.) V6 would be a better match for a non-split (248kb max) machine. By the time V7 was out the 11/70 was being used as the development platform and split I/D was becoming more and more necessary. Steven Schultz sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Sat Nov 11 05:42:31 1995 From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 06:42:31 +1100 (EST) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: from "Johnny Billquist" at Nov 10, 95 11:23:03 am Message-ID: <9511101942.AA12536@dolphin> In atricle by Johnny Billquist: > > >Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11. > >I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive? > > I think it should go there, anyway. What's its copyright? I'd love it, but I'll check with Doug first. P.S Rewrote Xinu on ass. code for an Apple ][, pretty sick, huh :-) See you all later, Warren From sysyphus at crl.com Wed Nov 15 12:02:41 1995 From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 18:02:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd) Message-ID: Greetings: I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11 but won't go with BSD or TSX, and no docs on it at all). I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from. Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain? ************************************************************************* * A Personal Message from * BASILISK * * Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" * * ( sysyphus at crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 * * Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode * ************************************************************************* From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com Wed Nov 15 16:13:24 1995 From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 22:13:24 -0800 Subject: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd) Message-ID: <199511150613.WAA21716@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Howdy - > From: "Danny R. Brown" > > I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that > I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's > or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11 The version of 2.9 I have dates from 1983 and lacks any support for TMSCP and MSCP. Support for those came later, the initial 2BSD driver is dated September 1985 and has a comment to the effect it's based on the 4.3BSD UDA driver, so 2.10 was likely the first inclusion of MSCP in a 2BSD kit. By the time of 2.10BSD the MSCP driver was definitely present. TMSCP support didn't make it in until 2.10.1BSD in 1989 - I know that for sure 'cause I did the port. > I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were > a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from. TK-50 support didn't enter the picture until 1989 and it's a real beast of a driver (not to mention the bootblock and standalone driver). > Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain? Unless you can find some one with a later 2.9BSD system into which the MSCP driver was hacked (doubtful but who knows) I think you're out of luck. I seriously doubt you'll find a TK50 version of 2.9 since that wasn't added until 2.10.1BSD. On a /73 you're probably _much_ better off installing 2.11BSD (currently at rev #277) - it's due to enter the archive in Oz any day now (when Warren gets back from vacation). Steven Schultz sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Wed Nov 15 20:17:13 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:17:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: mknod device numbers Message-ID: v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc. Does anyone know the major and minor numbers offhand, or know the source well enough to know where to find them? I've grepped the source to no avail ... Cheers, Bob -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "I'd rather stay a child and keep my self respect, if being an adult means being like you" Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO Thu Nov 16 01:35:23 1995 From: tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO (Tom I Helbekkmo) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET) Subject: mknod device numbers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote: > v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as > distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my > RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc. This works for me, with v6: # chdir /dev # ls -l total 0 crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 console crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 1 May 14 1975 kmem crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 0 May 14 1975 mem crw-rw-rw- 1 bin 8, 2 May 14 1975 null brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 0 Oct 10 1975 rk0 brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 1 Oct 10 1975 rk1 brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 2 Oct 10 1975 rk2 brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 3 Oct 10 1975 rk3 crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 0 Nov 7 01:19 rrk0 crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 1 Nov 7 01:19 rrk1 crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 2 Nov 7 01:19 rrk2 crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 3 Nov 7 01:19 rrk3 crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 tty8 Protection could be better, of course. :-) -tih -- Tom Ivar Helbekkmo tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO From milov at fingers.acs.uwlax.edu Thu Nov 16 03:22:22 1995 From: milov at fingers.acs.uwlax.edu (Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 11:22:22 -0600 Subject: mknod device numbers Message-ID: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu> Hi, All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab structure in the kernel. This is probably something that can be divined by running nm on the kernel, /unix ? (All this is from memory, my annotated V6 kernel listing is buried at home right now.) But, I'd be surprised to see a V6 distribution that didn't have the rk drivers built in. Another thing to watch out for is the rk driver, er, device names/numbers that interleaved a file system across multiple drives. BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on my pdp11/34's and 11/44? --Milo --- Milo Velimirovic Unix Computer Network Administrator (608) 785-8030 Information Technology, Operations and Networking University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W Begin forwarded message: > > Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET) > From: Tom I Helbekkmo > To: Bob Manners > Cc: OldUnix MailingList > Subject: Re: mknod device numbers > In-Reply-To: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote: > > > v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as > > distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my > > RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc. > > This works for me, with v6: > > # chdir /dev > # ls -l > total 0 > crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 console > crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 1 May 14 1975 kmem > crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 0 May 14 1975 mem > crw-rw-rw- 1 bin 8, 2 May 14 1975 null > brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 0 Oct 10 1975 rk0 > brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 1 Oct 10 1975 rk1 > brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 2 Oct 10 1975 rk2 > brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 3 Oct 10 1975 rk3 > crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 0 Nov 7 01:19 rrk0 > crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 1 Nov 7 01:19 rrk1 > crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 2 Nov 7 01:19 rrk2 > crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 3 Nov 7 01:19 rrk3 > crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 tty8 > > Protection could be better, of course. :-) > > -tih > -- > Tom Ivar Helbekkmo > tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO > > From tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO Thu Nov 16 06:57:59 1995 From: tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO (Tom I Helbekkmo) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:57:59 +0100 (MET) Subject: mknod device numbers In-Reply-To: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030 wrote: > All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the > device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab > structure in the kernel. True enough. The example I gave was correct for the V6 distribution that Ken Wellsch donated to the PUPS archive, and in which the file /usr/sys/conf/c.c (generated by 'mkconf' in the same directory) ends up with the following for the default "rkunix" with rk, tm and tc drivers enabled, as per the script /usr/sys/run: int (*bdevsw[])() { &nulldev, &nulldev, &rkstrategy, &rktab, /* rk */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* rp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* rf */ &tmopen, &tmclose, &tmstrategy, &tmtab, /* tm */ &nulldev, &tcclose, &tcstrategy, &tctab, /* tc */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* hs */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* hp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* ht */ 0 }; int (*cdevsw[])() { &klopen, &klclose, &klread, &klwrite, &klsgtty, /* console */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* pc */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* lp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dc */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dh */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dj */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dn */ &nulldev, &nulldev, &mmread, &mmwrite, &nodev, /* mem */ &nulldev, &nulldev, &rkread, &rkwrite, &nodev, /* rk */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* rf */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* rp */ &tmopen, &tmclose, &tmread, &tmwrite, &nodev, /* tm */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* hs */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* hp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* ht */ 0 }; The major device numbers are the offsets (counting from 0) in these arrays, so rk has major 0 for the block device, 9 for the character device. I would assume that this holds for V6 in general -- if one were to add device drivers, one would surely extend these arrays at their ends, not insert anything into them... :-) -tih -- Tom Ivar Helbekkmo tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Fri Nov 17 20:32:24 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 10:32:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 11/34 with RK05 emulation ?? Message-ID: My 11/34 is currently down awaiting replacement of an RK05 head which crashed rather painfully on Monday (the 13th !). In the meantime, I'm trying to sort out a new UNIX image for it, using an emulator on the PC. I have an 11/73 emulator for UNIX (Linux) with RK05s, and an 11/34 emulator (E11) for DOS, which looks great, but doesn't support RK05 yet. The 11/73 emulator runs the v5 and v6 images nicely. The question is, will these images run on a *real* 11/34 without a floating point board? The /73 and /34 MMUs are significantly different I believe. Looking at the v6 docs, the system is claimed to run on the 11/40, /45 and /70, but the /34 was yet to be created at that time, so there is no information about that! I'd be very grateful of someone could either tell me of a /34 emulator with RK05 image support, or confirm if v5/v6/v7 UNIX will run on: 11/34a 128Kw 1xRK05 no floating point no sep I+D (I guess) Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "There's more to life than books you know, but not much more" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Tue Nov 21 08:19:41 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:19:41 +1100 (EST) Subject: mknod device numbers In-Reply-To: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu> from "Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030" at Nov 15, 95 11:22:22 am Message-ID: <9511202219.AA13088@dolphin> In atricle by Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030: > > BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on > my pdp11/34's and 11/44? Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these. Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP, we can ask them for an answer. P.S Back from holidays, the machine minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au died (out of swap) on Saturday, and I've just rebooted her, so the mailing list is back up. I've also moved 2.11BSD into the ftp archive on henry.cs.adfa.oz.au. Thanks to Steven Schultz for the copy. Cheers, Warren From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Tue Nov 21 13:55:34 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 14:55:34 +1100 (EST) Subject: a.out simulator: PDP test progs? Message-ID: <9511210355.AA16445@dolphin> All, I am still bashing away at my v7 a.out simulator, available at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz. I'm having a *$(&(#(@ of a time getting it to work 100% correctly. At the moment, I can compile 30 to 40% of the programs in /usr/src/cmd. It seems that the assember isn't being simulated correctly. Nearly all the other programs work fine. Does anybody have any PDP-11 asm programs (preferably v7 Unix .s files) that give the user mode a damn good flogging, and catch instructions and addressing modes that are not working correctly :-) Thanks all, Warren From dave at esi.COM.AU Tue Nov 21 21:49:00 1995 From: dave at esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:49:00 +1100 (EST) Subject: mknod device numbers In-Reply-To: <9511202219.AA13088@dolphin> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Warren Toomey wrote: > Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these. > Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP, > we can ask them for an answer. Ah yes, the classic Catch-22... "How do I do this?" "You need a licence." "How do I get a licence?" "Nobody knows." With apologies to Milo Minderbinder... And in the meantime. those of us who can't quite lay our hands upon that piece of paper will just have to wait until Something Can Be Done. -- Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU) | dave at esi.com.au | VK2KFU @ VK2DAA.NSW.AUS.OC | PGP 2.6 Opinions expressed are mine. | D8 15 71 F9 26 C8 63 40 5E 63 5C 65 FC A0 22 99 From sysyphus at crl.com Wed Nov 22 16:06:51 1995 From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:06:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: No subject Message-ID: Greetings: Woe is me. I have been trying to resurrect Unix (BSD) on my venerable PDP-11/73. It had an RL02, which has gone west. It is running RT-11/TSX off an RD-54, and I would much like to run BSD2.11 instead, for several reasons. Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that" -type errors, so I have given up. This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I need is either: 1. Someone who knows the secret to doing an addressable variable- block-length transfer to a TMSCP device with RT-11; or 2. A bootable RL02 image of 2.11, wwhich would be a feat; or 3.A bootable RD5X image of same; or 4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape. (Yes, I put eggs in my beer). All leads appreciated. I *do* have surplus Q-bus hardware (except for RL02 drives). Cheers! BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list? ************************************************************************* * A Personal Message from * BASILISK * * Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" * * ( sysyphus at crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 * * Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode * ************************************************************************* From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com Wed Nov 22 17:04:20 1995 From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:04:20 -0800 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <199511220704.XAA12504@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Danny - > From: "Danny R. Brown" > > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte records "bits as is" to tape? No labeling, no nothing. > seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has > no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed > syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that" Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of: cat mtboot mtboot boot > file dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512 Basically what you want to do is have two copies of the tapeboot block followed immediately by the boot program written to tape using 512 byte records. Perhaps catenating the data together into 1 temp file first would help and then write that file out all at one time. Once you have that data on tape you have a bootable TK50. The other images (mkfs, restor, etc) can be put on separate tapes if need be and loaded one at a time. That will require some interpolation of the setup/installation documents but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out. > This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could > build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I Or TMSCP ;-( > 4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape. > (Yes, I put eggs in my beer). Bletch (to eggs in beer) ;-) TK50 tapes are excrutiatingly (sp) time consuming to write - I'm not sure where the problem is (other than the TK50 being about as smart and fast as a rock). Reading them isn't too bad, but to write a full 2.11 kit on TK50 took around 7 hours the last time I did it on a 11/73. > BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list? Drop a line to Warren Toomey (wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au). Cheers and good luck. Steven From sysyphus at crl.com Thu Nov 23 11:17:39 1995 From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <199511220704.XAA12504@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Danny - > > > From: "Danny R. Brown" > > > > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a > > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot > > Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte > records "bits as is" to tape? No labeling, no nothing. ------- snip ------ > Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of: > > cat mtboot mtboot boot > file > dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512 > First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD. Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the TK-50 (under RT-11). I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel- to -reel magtape. Anybody know where I can find one ? :=) ************************************************************************* * A Personal Message from * BASILISK * * Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" * * ( sysyphus at crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 * * Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode * ************************************************************************* From robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 23 17:55:16 1995 From: robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 07:55:16 GMT Subject: your mail Message-ID: <143@falstaf.demon.co.uk> > First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD. Agreed, they are excellent, Steven did a wonderful job of continuing and enhancing the docs that were completed for 2.10. They originally enabled me to do a complete install, never having done one for anything other than RSX and with zero UNIX experience. SO again, well done Steven. > > Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the > TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands > which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the > TK-50 (under RT-11). Can you not write to the TK50 using system calls?. What you need to do is to write a utility that does "raw" byte by byte writes to the tape. I can't believe that this can't be done. If this can be done then images could be written to the tape exactly as they appear on a standard 2.11 distribution which could help you out. Failing that, where are you?. Could one of the people close by who have 2.11 cut you a TK50?. Cheers Robin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Robin Birch EMail robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE Thu Nov 23 18:25:13 1995 From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 9:25:13 +0100 (MET) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: >On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > >> Danny - >> >> > From: "Danny R. Brown" >> > >> > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a >> > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot >> >> Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte >> records "bits as is" to tape? No labeling, no nothing. > ------- snip ------ >> Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of: >> >> cat mtboot mtboot boot > file >> dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512 >> > First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD. > > Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the > TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands > which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the > TK-50 (under RT-11). > I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel- > to -reel magtape. > Anybody know where I can find one ? :=) I have a TU77 here in Sweden... :-) And maybe Megan can answer for that "stupidity"...? :-) Johnny From sysyphus at crl.com Mon Nov 27 15:45:23 1995 From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:45:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: BSD211 Tape building Message-ID: Greetings: I'm getting there. Now that I have a working(??) drive, more trouble. The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching. bytes, 512 -byte Tape file Docs- #records, size PC RT11disk blocks 0 mtboot 1 512 512 1 boot 14 512 32462 64 1 disklabel * 23@ 512 or 1024 36191 71 2 mkfs 28 1024 31727 62 3 restor 27 1024 34066 67 4 icheck 26 1024 31356 62 * disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places. I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC prior to ethernet-ing it to the PDP with no errors, and in fact I unzipped one file on my unix host and beamed it down. It was the same. Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas whatis going on here? Merry Christmas! ************************************************************************* * A Personal Message from * BASILISK * * Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" * * ( sysyphus at crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 * * Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode * ************************************************************************* From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com Mon Nov 27 17:09:29 1995 From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 23:09:29 -0800 Subject: BSD211 Tape building Message-ID: <199511270709.XAA21408@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Hi - > From: "Danny R. Brown" > > Greetings: > The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching. I'm not sure what you mean by "not matching" - the sizes you list below are correct. 'boot' is 32462 bytes, 'disklabel' is 36191 bytes, 'mkfs' is indeed 31727, and so on. > Tape file Docs- #records, size PC RT11disk blocks > 0 mtboot 1 512 512 1 > boot 14 512 32462 64 > 1 disklabel * 23@ 512 or 1024 36191 71 > 2 mkfs 28 1024 31727 62 > 3 restor 27 1024 34066 67 > 4 icheck 26 1024 31356 62 > > * disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places. ARRGH! That's a typo in the setup documents. Sorry 'bout that. I'll updated the master copies and post a patch in comp.bugs.2bsd soon. ALL of the executable programs (disklabel, icheck, mkfs, restor) must be blocked at 1024 bytes per record on the tape. > I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC Yep - it looks like the gunzip went ok - the byte sizes look correct. > Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas > whatis going on here? You lost me there - what is too big or too small about them? The record counts mentioned in the setup documents are examples - the counts were accurate at one time, but then if a bug was fixed or a feature added to boot or restor the number of records would change slightly. The various programs change size over time and the documents are not updated if the record sizes change a little bit. Oh - you need to have 2 copies of the 'mtboot' file at the front of the tape. Why (I hear you ask)? Some boot roms actually read the 2nd copy! The format of a boot tape is: mtboot mtboot boot disklabel mkfs restor icheck = Tape Mark. the first file (with mtboot,mtboot,boot) is blocked at 512 bytes, all the other executables are blocked at 1024 (ignore the typo in the setup docs). Good Luck! Steven Schultz sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Mon Nov 27 21:05:09 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 11:05:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: mknod device nnumbers (again) Message-ID: First off, thanks to all the people who gave me info for the rk? and rrk? devices. That now works. I now come to the question of tty devices. On v5 and v6, the single terminal device which is set up is /dev/tty8 (c 0 0). This suggests to me that the system is build with a DZ11 (or similar) as tty0 to tty7. Am I correct in this assumption? My system has a pair of DL11s, and one of them works happily as tty8. I'd like to get the second interface up and running. I also have a DZ11, if that is any help. (The second DL11 is set up at present and works with RT11 using the CONSOL.MAC mechanism to switch ttys. I can't remember the CSR/VEC, but it is the RT11 default for a second DL11). Question is: ------------ What is the device numbering (major/minor) for a second DL11? (and what CSR/VEC should it have?)? Or need I rebuild the system for support of a second DL11? Second, is the DZ11 supported by default, and, if so, what CSR/VEC should I set, and what are the device major and minor numbers? Cheers once again, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Tue Nov 28 12:04:32 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:04:32 +1100 (EST) Subject: New version of Apout simulator Message-ID: <9511280204.AA24810@dolphin> All, It looks like this old PDP unix mailing list is going well, from all the questions & answers going past. Does anybody know of software to archive, catalogue, search and retrieve mail archives via the Web? My v7 a.out simulator is now working pretty well. I still can't run /usr/games/chess, but I can compile a kernel from scratch using v7 cc, and I can also compile the /usr/bin programs using v7 cc. The latest version is available at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout2.1beta.tar.gz P.S If you know of anybody else who would like to join the mailing list, please let them know about it. The more people we have helping each other out, the better. Cheers, Warren From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Nov 29 07:58:01 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:58:01 +1100 (EST) Subject: PDP Unix - Job Control Message-ID: <9511282158.AA27619@dolphin> While I was hacking away at a tcsh-like shell for Minix (a 7th Edition clone for IBM ATs), I came up with this truly bizarre method of job control. It even works! Warren Seventh Edition Job Control Job control can be achieved under early versions of Unix, such as Seventh Edition, by using the ptrace(2) system call in a manner not intended by its designers. Ptrace() was designed to allow a parent process to trace the excution of a child process, stopping the child under certain conditions, examining or modifying the contents of the child's memory, and restarting the child. The stopping/restarting abilities of ptrace() can be used to provide job control. To permit a child process to be stopped, it must inform the parent that it wants its execution to be traced, which it does by ptrace(0,0,0,0). Fortunately, this can be done after the fork() and before the exec() in the shell. When a traced process is executing, it is stopped under the following conditions: + the process receives a signal, or + the process exec()s If the shell is wait()ing on the child, it will be informed that the child has stopped, and can determine the signal that caused the process to stop (SIGTRAP in the case that the process exec()d). It is then able, using ptrace() with various arguments, to terminate or restart the process. At the same time, the shell can also deliver the signal to the restarted process, or not deliver the signal (see the manual for ptrace(2)). Seventh Edition job control, thus, is not so much a matter of stopping a process when requested to by the user, as ensuring that the process is always restarted, except when the user wants it to stop. Restarting stopped processes is straightforward. Stopping a running foreground process, however, is difficult, as there is no terminal key that, when pressed, will inform the shell to stop the process; indeed, the shell is most likely blocked wait()ing for the process to terminate. Two keys that do affect the execution of a foreground process are `int' (usually ^C or DEL), which sends a SIGINT to the process, and `quit' (usually ^\), which sends a SIGQUIT to the process. The latter cannot be caught or ignored by the process, and the delivery of SIGQUIT causes the process to terminate, usually with a core dump. However, when a process is being traced, pending signals are not delivered; instead, the process is stopped, and the parent informed about the pending signal. The parent can choose to terminate or restart the process, delivering or ignoring the signal as described above. Therefore, with ^C being frequently used, and ^\ rarely used, it is possible to reinterpret the meaning of ^\ and SIGQUIT to mean ``stop the process''. The SIGQUIT from ^\ is never delivered by the shell, but all other signals (including the SIGINT from ^C) are delivered. Users can then re-bind the `quit' key with stty(1) to be the more traditional `stop' key, ^Z. From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Wed Nov 29 20:44:32 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:44:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: mknod device numbers Message-ID: First off, thanks to all the people who gave me info for the rk? and rrk? devices. That now works. I now come to the question of tty devices. On v5 and v6, the single terminal device which is set up is /dev/tty8 (c 0 0). This suggests to me that the system is build with a DZ11 (or similar) as tty0 to tty7. Am I correct in this assumption? My system has a pair of DL11s, and one of them works happily as tty8. I'd like to get the second interface up and running. I also have a DZ11, if that is any help. (The second DL11 is set up at present and works with RT11 using the CONSOL.MAC mechanism to switch ttys. I can't remember the CSR/VEC, but it is the RT11 default for a second DL11). Question is: ------------ o What is the device numbering (major/minor) for a second DL11? (and what CSR/VEC should it have?)? Or need I rebuild the system for support of a second DL11? o Second, is the DZ11 supported by default, and, if so, what CSR/VEC should I set, and what are the device major and minor numbers? Cheers once again, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 288762 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Wed Nov 29 20:55:58 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:55:58 +0000 (GMT) Subject: v5, v6 on /34 Message-ID: Having got past the emulator stage now (and having had my RK05 fitted with new heads after a _spectacular_ crash), I've been setting to the task of resurecting UNIX on the system. Thanks to John Wilson's excellent KSERVE Kermit server for RT11 I've been able to transfer v5 and v6 disk images to RK05. v6 boots just fine, and runs without any real drama. v5, much to my suprise, does not ... First off, my hardware is: 11/34a (no fpp, no cache) 124K word (248Kb) MOS 2 x DL11-W RX11 RK11D 1 x RK05 1 x RX01 v5 boots to the '@' prompt. Entering the kernel name at this prompt (this is the kernel for the RK05, obviously), causes a great deal of disk activity - far more than for v6, in fact. The disk activity stops, but no login prompt is presented. The processor is not halted, but is executing a relatively tight loop. Under emulation (using Bob Supnic's pdp11 emulator), v6 ran fine, but v5 caused TRAPS every so often. It occurs to me that the behaviour I've seen on the real 11/34 corresponds to a trap observed using the emulator. The emulator can be 'continued' after a trap and all is well. Since the 11/34 doesn't actually halt, but merely sits in a tight loop, I can't see how to proceed. Question is, is what I'm seeing a kernel panic? Since nothing is output to the tty, after the '@' prompt, it may be that the kernel doesn't like the look of my DL11 configuration? Alternatively, everything may be AOK, and running, except that no login prompt is produced on the tty. Interestingly UNIX causes a UNIBUS reset as it finishes booting. This is evidenced by the clattering of the RX01. Naturally it's not necessary for me to get v5 going, since v6 is fine, but it would be extremely interesting to find out what is going on. v7 seems to give a great deal of TRAPs on the emualtor, so maybe that would not like the real hardware either judging from current observations. What do people think about this? Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 288762 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Thu Nov 2 08:29:35 1995 From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:29:35 +1100 (EST) Subject: Canonical answer about getting v6 & v7 source Message-ID: <9511012229.AA16683@dolphin> Firstly, welcome to some new members of the old unix mailing list. If you don't get this email, please let me know ;-) I received an email back from Dennis Ritchie about getting a v6/v7 license (for those who don't have one). Here is his full reply: From: Dennis Ritchie To: Warren Toomey Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:40:55 EST Subject: canonical answer about Sixth and Seventh Edition So far as I can determine, AT&T doesn't think it has the right to issue new licenses for any Unix editions, and won't do so. Several years ago, the Unix IP was transferred to Unix Systems Laboratories, at first as a mostly-owned subsidiary; USL was then sold to Novell, and recently Novell agreed to sell its Unix business to SCO (and HP is partially involved). As of the end of October 1995 this last sale had not been consummated. In other words, AT&T is out of the Unix business, and has been for some time; any licenses will have to come from the current owner. But the "current owner" is itself in flux, and I doubt that even before the latest sale, Novell was quite geared up to issue Seventh Edition licenses; I have no useful suggestions about how to obtain one officially (it might be interesting to try). Official sources in AT&T have said that they have no objection to reissuance of Lions's commentaries and source publication of the Sixth Edition. Dennis So it doesn't look like good news at the moment; I guess we could approach SCO and HP, and ask about trying to get licenses from them. I'll see what I can do. A few other people mentioned that they would like to get stuff from the archive of early Unixes that I'm maintaining, and how to prove that they have a license. I have no idea how to do this, any suggestions? P.S There isn't a Sixth Edition in the archive as yet, can anyone send me a distribution or bootable disk image? Cheers all, Warren Toomey From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Nov 3 09:21:10 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:21:10 +1100 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <9511022321.AA09085@dolphin> hello From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Nov 3 09:24:09 1995 From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:24:09 +1100 (EST) Subject: Licensed PDP Unix Archive ftpable Message-ID: <9511022324.AA09122@dolphin> All, A few quick notes about the PDP Unix archive effort. Dennis has sent in Fifth Edition, and both he and Ken Wellsch have sent in Sixth Edition. I've set up ftp access to the archive of licensed stuff. To get in, email me and I will send you back a username/password plus details. Cheers, Warren From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Thu Nov 9 15:02:51 1995 From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:02:51 +1100 (EST) Subject: Another PDP Unix program Message-ID: <9511090502.AA00022@dolphin> Hi, Firstly, this old unix mailing list is damn quiet - I'm the only one talking. If you have any questions, ideas etc., mail them to oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au. I'm away all of next week for a holiday, but will be back after that. Steven Schultz has promised 2.11BSD for the PDP Unix archive, and I'm also talking with Keith Bostic, as he has some stuff of interest. There is also a new PDP-11 simulator; this one runs a.out binaries directly, and passes the syscalls directly to the native operating system. You can pick it up at: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz If anybody can fix the bugs mentioned in the README, please let me know! See you all again soon! Warren From risner at heathers.stdio.com Thu Nov 9 23:19:36 1995 From: risner at heathers.stdio.com (James Risner) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST Subject: No subject Message-ID: <199511091319.IAA02121@heathers.stdio.com> Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11. I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive? Risner From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Thu Nov 9 20:19:12 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:19:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Disk image file --> RK05 Message-ID: I posted this query to vmsnet.pdp-11 and alt.sys.pdp11, but following Warren's complaint that noone was talking on oldunix at minnie I'll ask you lot too ... I have on my PC hard disk a couple of rk05 disk images (from Warren's archive, naturally). Question is, how to get them onto a real rk05 ... the real PDP beats the emulator any day after all ... Naturally someone has workedout how to extract RK05 images to files to put on the archive site. I'm wondering if anyone has solved the reverse problem yet ... I could split up the file into moderate sized pieces (say 250k, RX01 sized bits), boot the PDP (RT11) off RX01 floppy, start kermit and transfer a file piece from the PC to the other PDP floppy drive. Then I could mount a fresh RK05 pack, format etc. and run some crafty code to write the file to the appropriate place on the 'raw' RK05 device. What do you think? Another correspondent mentioned that Kermit may be able to write to "raw" devices directly, allowing me to transfer the file all in one piece. I'm still waiting for confirmation of that -- seems a little unlikely to me, but I've been suprised before. My system is: 11/34a 1 x RK05 (2.5Mb removable type, RK05f I think - or is it j?) 1 x RX01 128Kword As you can see, backing store is in short supply ;) I'd sooner avoid writing too much Macro-11 at present, so if the problem is already solved, I'd love to know how ... Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue, the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 10 04:11:19 1995 From: robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:11:19 GMT Subject: Register of machines Message-ID: <138@falstaf.demon.co.uk> Dear All, I have just had a note from someone who wants to get RK05 stuff on to his system but might be in a position where his current setup can't do it. This sort of stuff might be helped if people submitted a register of what kit they have. This could allow people in reasonable geographic location to help each other out. FOr instance, if some one had a unix system that an rk05 could be plugged into then they could do this and then give the rk05's back once they had the stuff copied over. To start it off. I have: 1*11/73 (1.5MByte) 2*RD54 1*DHV11 1*TK50 Running 2.11 BSD. I also have 1*Compaq 386 (486 Cyrix chip) running FreeBSD I live in Gloucestershire UK and am willing to help anybody in copying stuff that I can. I can get access to 0.5inch mag tape RA60 and RL02 if necessary. Cheers Robin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Robin Birch EMail robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Fri Nov 10 19:47:43 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space) Message-ID: It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX require separate I+D space? Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue, the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE Fri Nov 10 20:23:55 1995 From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:55 +0100 (MET) Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space) In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: > >It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support >separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not >suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX >require separate I+D space? Steve Schoultz is really the one to answer this question, but I seem to remember that BSD2.9 was the last version which worked on non-I/D-space systems. Johnny From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE Fri Nov 10 20:23:03 1995 From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:03 +0100 (MET) Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST Message-ID: >Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11. >I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive? I think it should go there, anyway. Johnny From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com Sat Nov 11 02:46:36 1995 From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:46:36 -0800 Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space) Message-ID: <199511101646.IAA18106@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Bob - > From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) > > It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support > separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not > suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX > require separate I+D space? The last version of UNIX for the PDP11 which stood a chance of running on a non split machine was 2.9BSD. I'd expect it to be a very tight fit though because even on a split I/D machine we ended up overlaying the kernel (but then even V7 took overlays to fit - which we hacked into the kernel, at least in the environment here). A long long time ago I did squish a V7 system into an 11/23 - not a pretty sight, each command you ran caused the others on the system to be swapped out (do a "ls -l" and watch the shell get swapped, when the 'ls' finished then the shell would be swapped back in, etc.) V6 would be a better match for a non-split (248kb max) machine. By the time V7 was out the 11/70 was being used as the development platform and split I/D was becoming more and more necessary. Steven Schultz sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Sat Nov 11 05:42:31 1995 From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 06:42:31 +1100 (EST) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: from "Johnny Billquist" at Nov 10, 95 11:23:03 am Message-ID: <9511101942.AA12536@dolphin> In atricle by Johnny Billquist: > > >Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11. > >I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive? > > I think it should go there, anyway. What's its copyright? I'd love it, but I'll check with Doug first. P.S Rewrote Xinu on ass. code for an Apple ][, pretty sick, huh :-) See you all later, Warren From sysyphus at crl.com Wed Nov 15 12:02:41 1995 From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 18:02:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd) Message-ID: Greetings: I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11 but won't go with BSD or TSX, and no docs on it at all). I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from. Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain? ************************************************************************* * A Personal Message from * BASILISK * * Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" * * ( sysyphus at crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 * * Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode * ************************************************************************* From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com Wed Nov 15 16:13:24 1995 From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 22:13:24 -0800 Subject: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd) Message-ID: <199511150613.WAA21716@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Howdy - > From: "Danny R. Brown" > > I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that > I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's > or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11 The version of 2.9 I have dates from 1983 and lacks any support for TMSCP and MSCP. Support for those came later, the initial 2BSD driver is dated September 1985 and has a comment to the effect it's based on the 4.3BSD UDA driver, so 2.10 was likely the first inclusion of MSCP in a 2BSD kit. By the time of 2.10BSD the MSCP driver was definitely present. TMSCP support didn't make it in until 2.10.1BSD in 1989 - I know that for sure 'cause I did the port. > I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were > a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from. TK-50 support didn't enter the picture until 1989 and it's a real beast of a driver (not to mention the bootblock and standalone driver). > Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain? Unless you can find some one with a later 2.9BSD system into which the MSCP driver was hacked (doubtful but who knows) I think you're out of luck. I seriously doubt you'll find a TK50 version of 2.9 since that wasn't added until 2.10.1BSD. On a /73 you're probably _much_ better off installing 2.11BSD (currently at rev #277) - it's due to enter the archive in Oz any day now (when Warren gets back from vacation). Steven Schultz sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Wed Nov 15 20:17:13 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:17:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: mknod device numbers Message-ID: v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc. Does anyone know the major and minor numbers offhand, or know the source well enough to know where to find them? I've grepped the source to no avail ... Cheers, Bob -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "I'd rather stay a child and keep my self respect, if being an adult means being like you" Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO Thu Nov 16 01:35:23 1995 From: tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO (Tom I Helbekkmo) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET) Subject: mknod device numbers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote: > v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as > distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my > RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc. This works for me, with v6: # chdir /dev # ls -l total 0 crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 console crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 1 May 14 1975 kmem crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 0 May 14 1975 mem crw-rw-rw- 1 bin 8, 2 May 14 1975 null brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 0 Oct 10 1975 rk0 brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 1 Oct 10 1975 rk1 brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 2 Oct 10 1975 rk2 brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 3 Oct 10 1975 rk3 crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 0 Nov 7 01:19 rrk0 crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 1 Nov 7 01:19 rrk1 crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 2 Nov 7 01:19 rrk2 crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 3 Nov 7 01:19 rrk3 crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 tty8 Protection could be better, of course. :-) -tih -- Tom Ivar Helbekkmo tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO From milov at fingers.acs.uwlax.edu Thu Nov 16 03:22:22 1995 From: milov at fingers.acs.uwlax.edu (Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 11:22:22 -0600 Subject: mknod device numbers Message-ID: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu> Hi, All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab structure in the kernel. This is probably something that can be divined by running nm on the kernel, /unix ? (All this is from memory, my annotated V6 kernel listing is buried at home right now.) But, I'd be surprised to see a V6 distribution that didn't have the rk drivers built in. Another thing to watch out for is the rk driver, er, device names/numbers that interleaved a file system across multiple drives. BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on my pdp11/34's and 11/44? --Milo --- Milo Velimirovic Unix Computer Network Administrator (608) 785-8030 Information Technology, Operations and Networking University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W Begin forwarded message: > > Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET) > From: Tom I Helbekkmo > To: Bob Manners > Cc: OldUnix MailingList > Subject: Re: mknod device numbers > In-Reply-To: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote: > > > v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as > > distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my > > RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc. > > This works for me, with v6: > > # chdir /dev > # ls -l > total 0 > crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 console > crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 1 May 14 1975 kmem > crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 0 May 14 1975 mem > crw-rw-rw- 1 bin 8, 2 May 14 1975 null > brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 0 Oct 10 1975 rk0 > brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 1 Oct 10 1975 rk1 > brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 2 Oct 10 1975 rk2 > brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 3 Oct 10 1975 rk3 > crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 0 Nov 7 01:19 rrk0 > crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 1 Nov 7 01:19 rrk1 > crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 2 Nov 7 01:19 rrk2 > crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 3 Nov 7 01:19 rrk3 > crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 tty8 > > Protection could be better, of course. :-) > > -tih > -- > Tom Ivar Helbekkmo > tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO > > From tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO Thu Nov 16 06:57:59 1995 From: tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO (Tom I Helbekkmo) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:57:59 +0100 (MET) Subject: mknod device numbers In-Reply-To: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030 wrote: > All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the > device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab > structure in the kernel. True enough. The example I gave was correct for the V6 distribution that Ken Wellsch donated to the PUPS archive, and in which the file /usr/sys/conf/c.c (generated by 'mkconf' in the same directory) ends up with the following for the default "rkunix" with rk, tm and tc drivers enabled, as per the script /usr/sys/run: int (*bdevsw[])() { &nulldev, &nulldev, &rkstrategy, &rktab, /* rk */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* rp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* rf */ &tmopen, &tmclose, &tmstrategy, &tmtab, /* tm */ &nulldev, &tcclose, &tcstrategy, &tctab, /* tc */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* hs */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* hp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* ht */ 0 }; int (*cdevsw[])() { &klopen, &klclose, &klread, &klwrite, &klsgtty, /* console */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* pc */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* lp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dc */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dh */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dj */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dn */ &nulldev, &nulldev, &mmread, &mmwrite, &nodev, /* mem */ &nulldev, &nulldev, &rkread, &rkwrite, &nodev, /* rk */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* rf */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* rp */ &tmopen, &tmclose, &tmread, &tmwrite, &nodev, /* tm */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* hs */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* hp */ &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* ht */ 0 }; The major device numbers are the offsets (counting from 0) in these arrays, so rk has major 0 for the block device, 9 for the character device. I would assume that this holds for V6 in general -- if one were to add device drivers, one would surely extend these arrays at their ends, not insert anything into them... :-) -tih -- Tom Ivar Helbekkmo tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Fri Nov 17 20:32:24 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 10:32:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 11/34 with RK05 emulation ?? Message-ID: My 11/34 is currently down awaiting replacement of an RK05 head which crashed rather painfully on Monday (the 13th !). In the meantime, I'm trying to sort out a new UNIX image for it, using an emulator on the PC. I have an 11/73 emulator for UNIX (Linux) with RK05s, and an 11/34 emulator (E11) for DOS, which looks great, but doesn't support RK05 yet. The 11/73 emulator runs the v5 and v6 images nicely. The question is, will these images run on a *real* 11/34 without a floating point board? The /73 and /34 MMUs are significantly different I believe. Looking at the v6 docs, the system is claimed to run on the 11/40, /45 and /70, but the /34 was yet to be created at that time, so there is no information about that! I'd be very grateful of someone could either tell me of a /34 emulator with RK05 image support, or confirm if v5/v6/v7 UNIX will run on: 11/34a 128Kw 1xRK05 no floating point no sep I+D (I guess) Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "There's more to life than books you know, but not much more" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Tue Nov 21 08:19:41 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:19:41 +1100 (EST) Subject: mknod device numbers In-Reply-To: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu> from "Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030" at Nov 15, 95 11:22:22 am Message-ID: <9511202219.AA13088@dolphin> In atricle by Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030: > > BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on > my pdp11/34's and 11/44? Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these. Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP, we can ask them for an answer. P.S Back from holidays, the machine minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au died (out of swap) on Saturday, and I've just rebooted her, so the mailing list is back up. I've also moved 2.11BSD into the ftp archive on henry.cs.adfa.oz.au. Thanks to Steven Schultz for the copy. Cheers, Warren From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Tue Nov 21 13:55:34 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 14:55:34 +1100 (EST) Subject: a.out simulator: PDP test progs? Message-ID: <9511210355.AA16445@dolphin> All, I am still bashing away at my v7 a.out simulator, available at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz. I'm having a *$(&(#(@ of a time getting it to work 100% correctly. At the moment, I can compile 30 to 40% of the programs in /usr/src/cmd. It seems that the assember isn't being simulated correctly. Nearly all the other programs work fine. Does anybody have any PDP-11 asm programs (preferably v7 Unix .s files) that give the user mode a damn good flogging, and catch instructions and addressing modes that are not working correctly :-) Thanks all, Warren From dave at esi.COM.AU Tue Nov 21 21:49:00 1995 From: dave at esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:49:00 +1100 (EST) Subject: mknod device numbers In-Reply-To: <9511202219.AA13088@dolphin> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Warren Toomey wrote: > Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these. > Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP, > we can ask them for an answer. Ah yes, the classic Catch-22... "How do I do this?" "You need a licence." "How do I get a licence?" "Nobody knows." With apologies to Milo Minderbinder... And in the meantime. those of us who can't quite lay our hands upon that piece of paper will just have to wait until Something Can Be Done. -- Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU) | dave at esi.com.au | VK2KFU @ VK2DAA.NSW.AUS.OC | PGP 2.6 Opinions expressed are mine. | D8 15 71 F9 26 C8 63 40 5E 63 5C 65 FC A0 22 99 From sysyphus at crl.com Wed Nov 22 16:06:51 1995 From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:06:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: No subject Message-ID: Greetings: Woe is me. I have been trying to resurrect Unix (BSD) on my venerable PDP-11/73. It had an RL02, which has gone west. It is running RT-11/TSX off an RD-54, and I would much like to run BSD2.11 instead, for several reasons. Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that" -type errors, so I have given up. This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I need is either: 1. Someone who knows the secret to doing an addressable variable- block-length transfer to a TMSCP device with RT-11; or 2. A bootable RL02 image of 2.11, wwhich would be a feat; or 3.A bootable RD5X image of same; or 4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape. (Yes, I put eggs in my beer). All leads appreciated. I *do* have surplus Q-bus hardware (except for RL02 drives). Cheers! BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list? ************************************************************************* * A Personal Message from * BASILISK * * Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" * * ( sysyphus at crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 * * Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode * ************************************************************************* From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com Wed Nov 22 17:04:20 1995 From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:04:20 -0800 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <199511220704.XAA12504@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Danny - > From: "Danny R. Brown" > > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte records "bits as is" to tape? No labeling, no nothing. > seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has > no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed > syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that" Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of: cat mtboot mtboot boot > file dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512 Basically what you want to do is have two copies of the tapeboot block followed immediately by the boot program written to tape using 512 byte records. Perhaps catenating the data together into 1 temp file first would help and then write that file out all at one time. Once you have that data on tape you have a bootable TK50. The other images (mkfs, restor, etc) can be put on separate tapes if need be and loaded one at a time. That will require some interpolation of the setup/installation documents but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out. > This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could > build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I Or TMSCP ;-( > 4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape. > (Yes, I put eggs in my beer). Bletch (to eggs in beer) ;-) TK50 tapes are excrutiatingly (sp) time consuming to write - I'm not sure where the problem is (other than the TK50 being about as smart and fast as a rock). Reading them isn't too bad, but to write a full 2.11 kit on TK50 took around 7 hours the last time I did it on a 11/73. > BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list? Drop a line to Warren Toomey (wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au). Cheers and good luck. Steven From sysyphus at crl.com Thu Nov 23 11:17:39 1995 From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <199511220704.XAA12504@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Danny - > > > From: "Danny R. Brown" > > > > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a > > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot > > Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte > records "bits as is" to tape? No labeling, no nothing. ------- snip ------ > Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of: > > cat mtboot mtboot boot > file > dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512 > First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD. Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the TK-50 (under RT-11). I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel- to -reel magtape. Anybody know where I can find one ? :=) ************************************************************************* * A Personal Message from * BASILISK * * Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" * * ( sysyphus at crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 * * Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode * ************************************************************************* From robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 23 17:55:16 1995 From: robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 07:55:16 GMT Subject: your mail Message-ID: <143@falstaf.demon.co.uk> > First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD. Agreed, they are excellent, Steven did a wonderful job of continuing and enhancing the docs that were completed for 2.10. They originally enabled me to do a complete install, never having done one for anything other than RSX and with zero UNIX experience. SO again, well done Steven. > > Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the > TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands > which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the > TK-50 (under RT-11). Can you not write to the TK50 using system calls?. What you need to do is to write a utility that does "raw" byte by byte writes to the tape. I can't believe that this can't be done. If this can be done then images could be written to the tape exactly as they appear on a standard 2.11 distribution which could help you out. Failing that, where are you?. Could one of the people close by who have 2.11 cut you a TK50?. Cheers Robin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Robin Birch EMail robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE Thu Nov 23 18:25:13 1995 From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 9:25:13 +0100 (MET) Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: >On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > >> Danny - >> >> > From: "Danny R. Brown" >> > >> > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a >> > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot >> >> Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte >> records "bits as is" to tape? No labeling, no nothing. > ------- snip ------ >> Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of: >> >> cat mtboot mtboot boot > file >> dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512 >> > First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD. > > Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the > TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands > which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the > TK-50 (under RT-11). > I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel- > to -reel magtape. > Anybody know where I can find one ? :=) I have a TU77 here in Sweden... :-) And maybe Megan can answer for that "stupidity"...? :-) Johnny From sysyphus at crl.com Mon Nov 27 15:45:23 1995 From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:45:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: BSD211 Tape building Message-ID: Greetings: I'm getting there. Now that I have a working(??) drive, more trouble. The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching. bytes, 512 -byte Tape file Docs- #records, size PC RT11disk blocks 0 mtboot 1 512 512 1 boot 14 512 32462 64 1 disklabel * 23@ 512 or 1024 36191 71 2 mkfs 28 1024 31727 62 3 restor 27 1024 34066 67 4 icheck 26 1024 31356 62 * disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places. I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC prior to ethernet-ing it to the PDP with no errors, and in fact I unzipped one file on my unix host and beamed it down. It was the same. Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas whatis going on here? Merry Christmas! ************************************************************************* * A Personal Message from * BASILISK * * Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" * * ( sysyphus at crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 * * Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode * ************************************************************************* From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com Mon Nov 27 17:09:29 1995 From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 23:09:29 -0800 Subject: BSD211 Tape building Message-ID: <199511270709.XAA21408@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Hi - > From: "Danny R. Brown" > > Greetings: > The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching. I'm not sure what you mean by "not matching" - the sizes you list below are correct. 'boot' is 32462 bytes, 'disklabel' is 36191 bytes, 'mkfs' is indeed 31727, and so on. > Tape file Docs- #records, size PC RT11disk blocks > 0 mtboot 1 512 512 1 > boot 14 512 32462 64 > 1 disklabel * 23@ 512 or 1024 36191 71 > 2 mkfs 28 1024 31727 62 > 3 restor 27 1024 34066 67 > 4 icheck 26 1024 31356 62 > > * disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places. ARRGH! That's a typo in the setup documents. Sorry 'bout that. I'll updated the master copies and post a patch in comp.bugs.2bsd soon. ALL of the executable programs (disklabel, icheck, mkfs, restor) must be blocked at 1024 bytes per record on the tape. > I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC Yep - it looks like the gunzip went ok - the byte sizes look correct. > Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas > whatis going on here? You lost me there - what is too big or too small about them? The record counts mentioned in the setup documents are examples - the counts were accurate at one time, but then if a bug was fixed or a feature added to boot or restor the number of records would change slightly. The various programs change size over time and the documents are not updated if the record sizes change a little bit. Oh - you need to have 2 copies of the 'mtboot' file at the front of the tape. Why (I hear you ask)? Some boot roms actually read the 2nd copy! The format of a boot tape is: mtboot mtboot boot disklabel mkfs restor icheck = Tape Mark. the first file (with mtboot,mtboot,boot) is blocked at 512 bytes, all the other executables are blocked at 1024 (ignore the typo in the setup docs). Good Luck! Steven Schultz sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Mon Nov 27 21:05:09 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 11:05:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: mknod device nnumbers (again) Message-ID: First off, thanks to all the people who gave me info for the rk? and rrk? devices. That now works. I now come to the question of tty devices. On v5 and v6, the single terminal device which is set up is /dev/tty8 (c 0 0). This suggests to me that the system is build with a DZ11 (or similar) as tty0 to tty7. Am I correct in this assumption? My system has a pair of DL11s, and one of them works happily as tty8. I'd like to get the second interface up and running. I also have a DZ11, if that is any help. (The second DL11 is set up at present and works with RT11 using the CONSOL.MAC mechanism to switch ttys. I can't remember the CSR/VEC, but it is the RT11 default for a second DL11). Question is: ------------ What is the device numbering (major/minor) for a second DL11? (and what CSR/VEC should it have?)? Or need I rebuild the system for support of a second DL11? Second, is the DZ11 supported by default, and, if so, what CSR/VEC should I set, and what are the device major and minor numbers? Cheers once again, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 246561 x 162 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice "The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Tue Nov 28 12:04:32 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:04:32 +1100 (EST) Subject: New version of Apout simulator Message-ID: <9511280204.AA24810@dolphin> All, It looks like this old PDP unix mailing list is going well, from all the questions & answers going past. Does anybody know of software to archive, catalogue, search and retrieve mail archives via the Web? My v7 a.out simulator is now working pretty well. I still can't run /usr/games/chess, but I can compile a kernel from scratch using v7 cc, and I can also compile the /usr/bin programs using v7 cc. The latest version is available at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout2.1beta.tar.gz P.S If you know of anybody else who would like to join the mailing list, please let them know about it. The more people we have helping each other out, the better. Cheers, Warren From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Nov 29 07:58:01 1995 From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:58:01 +1100 (EST) Subject: PDP Unix - Job Control Message-ID: <9511282158.AA27619@dolphin> While I was hacking away at a tcsh-like shell for Minix (a 7th Edition clone for IBM ATs), I came up with this truly bizarre method of job control. It even works! Warren Seventh Edition Job Control Job control can be achieved under early versions of Unix, such as Seventh Edition, by using the ptrace(2) system call in a manner not intended by its designers. Ptrace() was designed to allow a parent process to trace the excution of a child process, stopping the child under certain conditions, examining or modifying the contents of the child's memory, and restarting the child. The stopping/restarting abilities of ptrace() can be used to provide job control. To permit a child process to be stopped, it must inform the parent that it wants its execution to be traced, which it does by ptrace(0,0,0,0). Fortunately, this can be done after the fork() and before the exec() in the shell. When a traced process is executing, it is stopped under the following conditions: + the process receives a signal, or + the process exec()s If the shell is wait()ing on the child, it will be informed that the child has stopped, and can determine the signal that caused the process to stop (SIGTRAP in the case that the process exec()d). It is then able, using ptrace() with various arguments, to terminate or restart the process. At the same time, the shell can also deliver the signal to the restarted process, or not deliver the signal (see the manual for ptrace(2)). Seventh Edition job control, thus, is not so much a matter of stopping a process when requested to by the user, as ensuring that the process is always restarted, except when the user wants it to stop. Restarting stopped processes is straightforward. Stopping a running foreground process, however, is difficult, as there is no terminal key that, when pressed, will inform the shell to stop the process; indeed, the shell is most likely blocked wait()ing for the process to terminate. Two keys that do affect the execution of a foreground process are `int' (usually ^C or DEL), which sends a SIGINT to the process, and `quit' (usually ^\), which sends a SIGQUIT to the process. The latter cannot be caught or ignored by the process, and the delivery of SIGQUIT causes the process to terminate, usually with a core dump. However, when a process is being traced, pending signals are not delivered; instead, the process is stopped, and the parent informed about the pending signal. The parent can choose to terminate or restart the process, delivering or ignoring the signal as described above. Therefore, with ^C being frequently used, and ^\ rarely used, it is possible to reinterpret the meaning of ^\ and SIGQUIT to mean ``stop the process''. The SIGQUIT from ^\ is never delivered by the shell, but all other signals (including the SIGINT from ^C) are delivered. Users can then re-bind the `quit' key with stty(1) to be the more traditional `stop' key, ^Z. From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Wed Nov 29 20:44:32 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:44:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: mknod device numbers Message-ID: First off, thanks to all the people who gave me info for the rk? and rrk? devices. That now works. I now come to the question of tty devices. On v5 and v6, the single terminal device which is set up is /dev/tty8 (c 0 0). This suggests to me that the system is build with a DZ11 (or similar) as tty0 to tty7. Am I correct in this assumption? My system has a pair of DL11s, and one of them works happily as tty8. I'd like to get the second interface up and running. I also have a DZ11, if that is any help. (The second DL11 is set up at present and works with RT11 using the CONSOL.MAC mechanism to switch ttys. I can't remember the CSR/VEC, but it is the RT11 default for a second DL11). Question is: ------------ o What is the device numbering (major/minor) for a second DL11? (and what CSR/VEC should it have?)? Or need I rebuild the system for support of a second DL11? o Second, is the DZ11 supported by default, and, if so, what CSR/VEC should I set, and what are the device major and minor numbers? Cheers once again, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 288762 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Wed Nov 29 20:55:58 1995 From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:55:58 +0000 (GMT) Subject: v5, v6 on /34 Message-ID: Having got past the emulator stage now (and having had my RK05 fitted with new heads after a _spectacular_ crash), I've been setting to the task of resurecting UNIX on the system. Thanks to John Wilson's excellent KSERVE Kermit server for RT11 I've been able to transfer v5 and v6 disk images to RK05. v6 boots just fine, and runs without any real drama. v5, much to my suprise, does not ... First off, my hardware is: 11/34a (no fpp, no cache) 124K word (248Kb) MOS 2 x DL11-W RX11 RK11D 1 x RK05 1 x RX01 v5 boots to the '@' prompt. Entering the kernel name at this prompt (this is the kernel for the RK05, obviously), causes a great deal of disk activity - far more than for v6, in fact. The disk activity stops, but no login prompt is presented. The processor is not halted, but is executing a relatively tight loop. Under emulation (using Bob Supnic's pdp11 emulator), v6 ran fine, but v5 caused TRAPS every so often. It occurs to me that the behaviour I've seen on the real 11/34 corresponds to a trap observed using the emulator. The emulator can be 'continued' after a trap and all is well. Since the 11/34 doesn't actually halt, but merely sits in a tight loop, I can't see how to proceed. Question is, is what I'm seeing a kernel panic? Since nothing is output to the tty, after the '@' prompt, it may be that the kernel doesn't like the look of my DL11 configuration? Alternatively, everything may be AOK, and running, except that no login prompt is produced on the tty. Interestingly UNIX causes a UNIBUS reset as it finishes booting. This is evidenced by the clattering of the RX01. Naturally it's not necessary for me to get v5 going, since v6 is fine, but it would be extremely interesting to find out what is going on. v7 seems to give a great deal of TRAPs on the emualtor, so maybe that would not like the real hardware either judging from current observations. What do people think about this? Cheers, Bob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Manners Osney Laboratory rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science University of Oxford 01865 288762 Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------