From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Aug 1 13:19:52 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:19:52 +1000 (EST) Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas Message-ID: <199708010319.NAA10575@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Dear PDP-11 & old Unix enthusiasts, Status report of our petition to SCO about UNIX src licenses. I received this from Dion Johnson last week: Warren, Thanks for your latest news. That's great about the signatures. Yes, I perused the earlier list and it's really amazing that we have such famous support for this. I am sure it will be a great PR victory when we finally get this arranged. Our exec VP (Doug Michels) is on your side. I am annoying our legal folks, bless their hearts. :-) They have a job to do also and I want to be sure we are protecting SCO's interests in the code in the right ways. I expect an answer in a week or so. I suspect there will be further internal iterations here as we craft a license that works for all parties. So the right answer to publish is: "SCO is pleased to entertain this request from so many loyal and famous fans of UNIX. We are looking into how we can provide this source code. No promises at this time, since there are some intellectual property issues that must be resolved, but we will do what we can." I'll email when I hear more. It occurred to me that if SCO agree to src licenses and people buy them, then they will of course want the software. I already make the stuff available to several people, on the trust that they have existing src licenses (e.g show me the first 100 lines of v7 nami.c etc.) At the moment, it's all sitting as .tar.gz files on my desktop box. If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive shouldn't divulge its contents easily. I'm after comments from you guys, the end users of the archive, as to what sounds good, ok, bad, annoying and/or plain stupid to you. Proposal -------- Make the archive available via FTP: - To prevent capture of ftp passwords, I suggest that each license owner has an ftp account, and authentication is done using S/Key. To distribute the S/Key key phrase or a number of S/Key pass phrases to the license owners, I suggest using PGP email. Keep the archive files encrypted: - This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the archive machine. Transmission to license owner - Suggestion A: - Transmit the PGP encrypted files `as is' to the license owner via ftp. Shortcoming: every license owner has the same private key required to decrypt the files. A hacker only needs to find one vulnerable license owner to get the key. Transmission to license owner - Suggestion B: - On-the-fly PGP encrypt the files using a key specific to the license owner. Shortcoming: end user must have a personal key plus the common key, and must decrypt everything twice. Transmission to license owner - Suggestion C: - On-the-fly decrypt the archive file, and on-the-fly re-encrypt it using a key specific to the license owner. End user only needs one personal PGP key to decrypt the file. Shortcoming: the key required to decrypt the file back to plaintext must exist on the archive server. Hackers who break-in can thus get plaintext. I think I prefer Suggestion A. For all 3 suggestions above, PGP private keys will be sent to license holders using PGP email. Anyway, this is an off the cuff set of ideas. I certainly want to keep my butt from being sued off by SCO :-), and so I need to authenticate users, keep audit trails of downloads and logins, and take reasonable steps to prevent non-legitimate users from accessing the licensed material. I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing access to this old UNIX software! Thanks in advance, Warren wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Aug 1 14:02:29 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:02:29 +1000 (EST) Subject: ideas re UNIX licensed distribution In-Reply-To: <199708010345.UAA27393@generic.yamato.com> from "Robert J. Kelley" at "Jul 31, 97 08:45:03 pm" Message-ID: <199708010402.OAA10623@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Robert J. Kelley: > > Why not just use SSH: verified licensees could submit keys and > the archive server would keep them on file. scp could be used > to retrieve the files. I'd still have to encrypt the archive files that are resident on disk. Also, ssh is more of a `general' login account. scp would allow someone to retrieve /etc/password :-) If I could restrict scp access, that'd be an ok alternative. Warren From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Aug 1 14:33:26 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:33:26 +1000 (EST) Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas In-Reply-To: <199708010412.VAA15987@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Jul 31, 97 09:12:05 pm" Message-ID: <199708010433.OAA10684@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Steven M. Schultz: > > Make the archive available via FTP: > > Convenient but the management of "accounts" and S/Key or PGP keys > could be a real logistic nightmare. > > Have you considered putting the archive on CDrom and shipping that > upon receipt of a copy of the license? Naturally there would be > a modest fee for the media and shipping. > > Probably would want a "mirror" shipping office in the US. > > The reason I asked the "what will most folks want" question earlier > was that perhaps folks only want a handful or a couple pieces. CDrom > writing is extremely simple (I think FreeBSD makes it harder or more > complex than other systems though) - perhaps folks could, with the > request for a CD specify which parts they want and a "custom" CD > could be created. > > This approach does have its own set of problems but it does do away > with network snooping, outages and breakins. The archive could be > offline or encrypted with a key known only to you - if you needed to > make something available you could decrypt a copy and make it available > for a small timewindow. > > I know I'm planning on creating a few CDs to safeguard the stuff I've > obtained so far - good (and cheap) protection against disk crashes > and unreadable backup tapes. > > A variation on this scheme would be to master a CD with everything > on it and let SCO send the CD out along with the license when > payment is received. Hmmmm - I kinda like this the more I think > about it. Might even get some nice artwork (the BSD 'imp'?) on > the cover. I'm sure SCO gets a real good rate at the CD pressing > plant so the media cost would be lower than an individual doing it > on a CDwriter. > Perhaps the online/FTP archive could be a backup or secondary > means of distribution - if someone convinces you (or sends a copy > of the license) they have the license but lost the media, etc you > could set up a PGP encrypted account for them. > Cheers. > Steven Yes, I'd thought about cutting a CD directly from the current archive, and certainly having someone (SCO, me?) distribute files on CD would make the administration a lot easier. I guess license holders could buy `upgrade CDs' if the archive changes. If SCO come to the src license party, I certainly will ask them about pressing CDs and distributing them as part of the license sale. Thanks for the input Steven! Warren From m at mbsks.franken.de Fri Aug 1 17:29:48 1997 From: m at mbsks.franken.de (Matthias Bruestle) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:29:48 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas In-Reply-To: <199708010319.NAA10575@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "Aug 1, 97 01:19:52 pm" Message-ID: Mahlzeit According to Warren Toomey: > If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to > set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access > the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive > shouldn't divulge its contents easily. Isn't ftp for a $200-programm secure enough? I'm doing beta testing for a programm, which costs $1100 and they distribute the passwords for ftp by unencrypted mail. They do that allready for a few releases and I don't think they had any problems with that. > Keep the archive files encrypted: > > - This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the > plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very > large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the > archive machine. I don't think you need a very large key. Everyone, which has the choice to crack a 512bit key or to pay $200, would choose to pay. > I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing > access to this old UNIX software! I think pgp is to difficult to use for some. You could use a simple encryption programm like: ftp://isidor.ethz.ch/pub/simpl/safer.V1.1.tar.Z which should be very portable. The passphrase could be distributed on the license. Mahlzeit endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Thu Aug 7 09:22:07 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:22:07 +1000 (EST) Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK Message-ID: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Dear PDP-11 UNIXers, Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read: * In article by George Coulouris: * > Warren, * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to * > have a go at reading the tape. * > George * [and later...] * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George?? No, I'm afraid not. I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your people. George ------- Can anybody in the UK or Europe who would be happy to read this old tape for George & for the PUPS archive please email him! His address is George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk Many thanks in advance, Warren wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au From engel at numerik.math.uni-siegen.de Thu Aug 7 18:39:42 1997 From: engel at numerik.math.uni-siegen.de (Michael Engel) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:39:42 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK In-Reply-To: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am Message-ID: <9708070839.AA04553@descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> Hi, it seems my mail didn`t come through last time ... > Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an > old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read: > > * In article by George Coulouris: > * > Warren, > * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to > * > have a go at reading the tape. > * > George > > [and later...] > > * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George?? > > No, I'm afraid not. > > I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in > London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your > people. > We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ... regards, Michael Engel (engel at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Mon Aug 11 13:22:17 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:22:17 +1000 (EST) Subject: PUPS In-Reply-To: <19970808214918.53692@dynamic.isdn.uiuc.edu> from "Mark D. Roth" at "Aug 8, 97 09:49:18 pm" Message-ID: <199708110322.NAA04948@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Mark D. Roth: > Warren, > > I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and > know next to nothing about. I'm looking for any info I might be able > to find on how to get this machine running, as well as any info I > might find about getting a Unix implementation for it. I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up, but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management (nor the memory) to get Unix running. > I saw reference to a mailing list on the webpage, but no information > on how to join. What can you tell me? Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight with regards to 11/03's. Cheers, Warren From sms at moe.2bsd.com Mon Aug 11 13:53:16 1997 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: PUPS Message-ID: <199708110353.UAA21891@moe.2bsd.com> Warren, Mark - > In article by Mark D. Roth: > > I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and > > know next to nothing about. I'm looking for any info I might be able > > I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the Quite correct. > paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up, > but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management > (nor the memory) to get Unix running. Warren - you're absolutely right. The 11/03 has a maximum memory (most were not fully populated) of 56kbytes and _no_ memory management. Any Unix (since the initial one on the PDP-7) requires at least two memory management states: kernel and user. Much later versions can take advantage of the 3rd mode (supervisor). Smallest machine I ever ran Unix on was an 11/23 (the development was done on a 11/70 because various programs were too large to run on a non split I/D machine such as the 11/23) and it was, shall we say, "interesting". Just enough memory (max of 248kb) to run one or two user processes at a time (we had a rather large kernel and some homebrew communications drivers) - you could get logged in and then each time you typed a command the shell would get swapped out to run your command ;). > Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone > with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight > with regards to 11/03's. You got it right - nothing to set straight. Steven Schultz From George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk Fri Aug 22 01:49:53 1997 From: George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk (George Coulouris) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:53 +0100 Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK In-Reply-To: <9708070839.AA04553@descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> References: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am Message-ID: Dear Michael, Many thanks for your offer. Sorry for the delay in replying. If you are still willing I would like to take up your offer. If you will mail me your physical mail address, I'll send you the tape. As far as I can remember the tape is a UNIX tar archive, that should be readable on the VMS machine and you could give the files back to me by ftp. (I'm taking up your offer rather than Tim Bradshaw's because you seem to have had more recent success with reading old tapes. Thanks again, George At 9:39 am +0100 7/8/97, Michael Engel wrote: * > * We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send * me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a * 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ... * At 3:22 pm +0100 7/8/97, Tim Bradshaw wrote: * * We have old-tape-reading-technology, so we could give it a try. No * promises at all though (I have to turn the drive back on &c, and it's * not altogether clear that it will work, though it did last time I * tried it), asnd it will take me ages to get around to it, being very * inefficient... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ George F. Coulouris | Computer Science Dept Professor of Computer Systems | QMW, University of London WWW: http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~george | Mile End Road Phone: +44 171 975 5201 (direct line) | London E1 4NS Fax: +44 181 980 6533 | United Kingdom Home phone: +44 171 485 5896 | pager: 01426 183113 | From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Aug 27 10:45:58 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:58 +1000 (EST) Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO Message-ID: <199708270045.KAA03801@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> All, Here is the latest email from SCO with regards to PDP-11 UNIX source licenses. I'll add one comment at the bottom. Please treat this as YOUR EYES ONLY. I haven't got permission from Dion to forward this on (yet), but I think that more pairs of eyes than just mine need to have a look at it for any problems. ----- Forwarded message from Dion ----- From: Dion X-Mailer: SCO OpenServer Mail Release 5.0 To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Touching Base! Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 12:45:07 PDT Warren, Good progress. We have some positive consensus developing. Here is the proposed license terms (roughly, not fully legalized yet). Please let me know if you see any problems with this proposal: Here are the terms that I think make sense: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- License terms: * the license covers the entire distributions (source code, binaries and documentation) of the following versions of UNIX: o 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX o 32V UNIX o PWB/UNIX o those portions of all 2BSD releases which are derived from UNIX source code * licensees have these rights wrt the binaries and source code of the above versions of UNIX: use store reproduce edit adapt enchance improve otherwise modify transmit electronically repackage * These rights are licensed to noncommercial users. The source may not be sold nor used to develop commercial versions of UNIX. * licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software * licensees have the right to allow noncommercial use the UNIX binaries on systems for which the product is licensed. (Note that the latter is already permitted, given SCO's binary license agreement for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX. We would also be happy with the following conditions imposed in the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes) * license is not transferable. * source code covered by the license cannot be distributed or disclosed to people not covered by the license. The licensees are permitted to collaborate on modifications and mutually share their modifications. * SCO is not required to provide copies of any source code, binaries or documentation with the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes License Fee: SCO charges a one-time license fee of $100 per licensee, for a site license for one organization. We may, at some future time, provide source distributions (if/when we can find the sources), but this is not committed. We know that the licensees have, between them, most of the needed sources. ----- End of forwarded message from Dion ----- My comment. The only thing I want to change is: * licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software becomes * licensees have the right to install UNIX software on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software This allows us to install source so as to modify it or to rebuild kernels etc. I briefly raised the issue of source distribution (SCO or me? FTP or CD-ROM?), but I suggested that we leave it until the licenses go on sale. Please email your comments on this to the mailing list (oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au). Thanks, Warren wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Aug 27 15:51:20 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:51:20 +1000 (EST) Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO In-Reply-To: <199708270539.WAA16297@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Aug 26, 97 10:39:11 pm" Message-ID: <199708270551.PAA00316@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Steven M. Schultz: > It looks to me that SCO has granted "us" every single thing we were > asking for. I've thought of a few more changes: In the wording from SCO, the status of `documentation' is unclear. The following should clear this up: + use the term software == `source, binaries and documentation' in many places where this is appropriate. + use the term `source' only where they want to restrict to licensees. + also, don't disclose `source' to people not covered by the SCO license or by existing UNIX software licenses from Western Electric and AT&T. Comments anybody? Warren From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Aug 29 11:43:09 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:43:09 +1000 (EST) Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO In-Reply-To: <9708281506.AA29078@numbat05-an2.pa.dec.com> from "mcjones@pa.dec.com" at "Aug 28, 97 08:06:23 am" Message-ID: <199708290143.LAA03340@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by mcjones at pa.dec.com: > > > Maybe someone else can volunteer, if I organise the contents :-) > > There's one here at my workplace. I don't know how to use it myself. > I could probably get some help in burning one or two, but I don't > think it would be appropriate to burn dozens or hundreds. How many > licensees do you anticipate? There's 300 signatures on the petition. I'd hope that 1/2 of those will buy licenses, and probably most would like the stuff in easy-to-use form. I know that Steven Schultz has access to a writer too (hint hint!). I will probably buy another hard disk here for the PDP archive, and give access to license holders. I'd like to get users to suggest layout changes & what should be exploded etc. so that we can burn a 650M CD image directly from the archive. Currently, the archive is sitting at 250M, so there's room to explode many of the distributions stored there. We also need to sit down and catalogue this stuff so that it's not just a collection of random tapes. I'm slowly doing this & have done the most important stuff, see the Tapes/DETAILS file if you ftp in. But more work needs to be done. So hopefully, we can pass the archive (as a Rock Ridge image) to a few volunteers to burn CD-R copies. Anybody in Europe who would volunteer? Just an idea! Warren From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Sun Aug 31 12:41:29 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:41:29 +1000 (EST) Subject: PDP-11 Unix CD-ROM archive burn In-Reply-To: from Kevin Wright at "Aug 29, 97 09:24:27 am" Message-ID: <199708310241.MAA04803@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Kevin Wright: > I could very possibly volunteer to do one. I have access to my > companies cdrom burner. > > Subject change: > I own a PDP-11/23+ for which I'm constantly searching the Internet for > RT-11 and TSX+ documentation and software, as well as any other OS's > such as Unix. Do you have any such software/documentation in your > archive of which you would be willing to allow me a copy? Kevin, until you can buy a license from SCO (soon I hope), all I can offer are the binaries for 6th & 7th Edition. If you have an RK05 or RL02, then you can get disk images as part of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator, at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11-sims/Supnik_2.3 (or a similar URL, I'm typing from memory). If you don't have RK05 or RL02s, someone should be able to build a suitable disk image for you. I think you'll need to go 6th Edition as you have a /23. Warren From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Aug 1 13:19:52 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:19:52 +1000 (EST) Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas Message-ID: <199708010319.NAA10575@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Dear PDP-11 & old Unix enthusiasts, Status report of our petition to SCO about UNIX src licenses. I received this from Dion Johnson last week: Warren, Thanks for your latest news. That's great about the signatures. Yes, I perused the earlier list and it's really amazing that we have such famous support for this. I am sure it will be a great PR victory when we finally get this arranged. Our exec VP (Doug Michels) is on your side. I am annoying our legal folks, bless their hearts. :-) They have a job to do also and I want to be sure we are protecting SCO's interests in the code in the right ways. I expect an answer in a week or so. I suspect there will be further internal iterations here as we craft a license that works for all parties. So the right answer to publish is: "SCO is pleased to entertain this request from so many loyal and famous fans of UNIX. We are looking into how we can provide this source code. No promises at this time, since there are some intellectual property issues that must be resolved, but we will do what we can." I'll email when I hear more. It occurred to me that if SCO agree to src licenses and people buy them, then they will of course want the software. I already make the stuff available to several people, on the trust that they have existing src licenses (e.g show me the first 100 lines of v7 nami.c etc.) At the moment, it's all sitting as .tar.gz files on my desktop box. If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive shouldn't divulge its contents easily. I'm after comments from you guys, the end users of the archive, as to what sounds good, ok, bad, annoying and/or plain stupid to you. Proposal -------- Make the archive available via FTP: - To prevent capture of ftp passwords, I suggest that each license owner has an ftp account, and authentication is done using S/Key. To distribute the S/Key key phrase or a number of S/Key pass phrases to the license owners, I suggest using PGP email. Keep the archive files encrypted: - This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the archive machine. Transmission to license owner - Suggestion A: - Transmit the PGP encrypted files `as is' to the license owner via ftp. Shortcoming: every license owner has the same private key required to decrypt the files. A hacker only needs to find one vulnerable license owner to get the key. Transmission to license owner - Suggestion B: - On-the-fly PGP encrypt the files using a key specific to the license owner. Shortcoming: end user must have a personal key plus the common key, and must decrypt everything twice. Transmission to license owner - Suggestion C: - On-the-fly decrypt the archive file, and on-the-fly re-encrypt it using a key specific to the license owner. End user only needs one personal PGP key to decrypt the file. Shortcoming: the key required to decrypt the file back to plaintext must exist on the archive server. Hackers who break-in can thus get plaintext. I think I prefer Suggestion A. For all 3 suggestions above, PGP private keys will be sent to license holders using PGP email. Anyway, this is an off the cuff set of ideas. I certainly want to keep my butt from being sued off by SCO :-), and so I need to authenticate users, keep audit trails of downloads and logins, and take reasonable steps to prevent non-legitimate users from accessing the licensed material. I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing access to this old UNIX software! Thanks in advance, Warren wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Aug 1 14:02:29 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:02:29 +1000 (EST) Subject: ideas re UNIX licensed distribution In-Reply-To: <199708010345.UAA27393@generic.yamato.com> from "Robert J. Kelley" at "Jul 31, 97 08:45:03 pm" Message-ID: <199708010402.OAA10623@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Robert J. Kelley: > > Why not just use SSH: verified licensees could submit keys and > the archive server would keep them on file. scp could be used > to retrieve the files. I'd still have to encrypt the archive files that are resident on disk. Also, ssh is more of a `general' login account. scp would allow someone to retrieve /etc/password :-) If I could restrict scp access, that'd be an ok alternative. Warren From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Aug 1 14:33:26 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:33:26 +1000 (EST) Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas In-Reply-To: <199708010412.VAA15987@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Jul 31, 97 09:12:05 pm" Message-ID: <199708010433.OAA10684@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Steven M. Schultz: > > Make the archive available via FTP: > > Convenient but the management of "accounts" and S/Key or PGP keys > could be a real logistic nightmare. > > Have you considered putting the archive on CDrom and shipping that > upon receipt of a copy of the license? Naturally there would be > a modest fee for the media and shipping. > > Probably would want a "mirror" shipping office in the US. > > The reason I asked the "what will most folks want" question earlier > was that perhaps folks only want a handful or a couple pieces. CDrom > writing is extremely simple (I think FreeBSD makes it harder or more > complex than other systems though) - perhaps folks could, with the > request for a CD specify which parts they want and a "custom" CD > could be created. > > This approach does have its own set of problems but it does do away > with network snooping, outages and breakins. The archive could be > offline or encrypted with a key known only to you - if you needed to > make something available you could decrypt a copy and make it available > for a small timewindow. > > I know I'm planning on creating a few CDs to safeguard the stuff I've > obtained so far - good (and cheap) protection against disk crashes > and unreadable backup tapes. > > A variation on this scheme would be to master a CD with everything > on it and let SCO send the CD out along with the license when > payment is received. Hmmmm - I kinda like this the more I think > about it. Might even get some nice artwork (the BSD 'imp'?) on > the cover. I'm sure SCO gets a real good rate at the CD pressing > plant so the media cost would be lower than an individual doing it > on a CDwriter. > Perhaps the online/FTP archive could be a backup or secondary > means of distribution - if someone convinces you (or sends a copy > of the license) they have the license but lost the media, etc you > could set up a PGP encrypted account for them. > Cheers. > Steven Yes, I'd thought about cutting a CD directly from the current archive, and certainly having someone (SCO, me?) distribute files on CD would make the administration a lot easier. I guess license holders could buy `upgrade CDs' if the archive changes. If SCO come to the src license party, I certainly will ask them about pressing CDs and distributing them as part of the license sale. Thanks for the input Steven! Warren From m at mbsks.franken.de Fri Aug 1 17:29:48 1997 From: m at mbsks.franken.de (Matthias Bruestle) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:29:48 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas In-Reply-To: <199708010319.NAA10575@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "Aug 1, 97 01:19:52 pm" Message-ID: Mahlzeit According to Warren Toomey: > If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to > set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access > the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive > shouldn't divulge its contents easily. Isn't ftp for a $200-programm secure enough? I'm doing beta testing for a programm, which costs $1100 and they distribute the passwords for ftp by unencrypted mail. They do that allready for a few releases and I don't think they had any problems with that. > Keep the archive files encrypted: > > - This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the > plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very > large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the > archive machine. I don't think you need a very large key. Everyone, which has the choice to crack a 512bit key or to pay $200, would choose to pay. > I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing > access to this old UNIX software! I think pgp is to difficult to use for some. You could use a simple encryption programm like: ftp://isidor.ethz.ch/pub/simpl/safer.V1.1.tar.Z which should be very portable. The passphrase could be distributed on the license. Mahlzeit endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Thu Aug 7 09:22:07 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:22:07 +1000 (EST) Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK Message-ID: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Dear PDP-11 UNIXers, Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read: * In article by George Coulouris: * > Warren, * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to * > have a go at reading the tape. * > George * [and later...] * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George?? No, I'm afraid not. I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your people. George ------- Can anybody in the UK or Europe who would be happy to read this old tape for George & for the PUPS archive please email him! His address is George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk Many thanks in advance, Warren wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au From engel at numerik.math.uni-siegen.de Thu Aug 7 18:39:42 1997 From: engel at numerik.math.uni-siegen.de (Michael Engel) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:39:42 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK In-Reply-To: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am Message-ID: <9708070839.AA04553@descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> Hi, it seems my mail didn`t come through last time ... > Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an > old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read: > > * In article by George Coulouris: > * > Warren, > * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to > * > have a go at reading the tape. > * > George > > [and later...] > > * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George?? > > No, I'm afraid not. > > I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in > London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your > people. > We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ... regards, Michael Engel (engel at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Mon Aug 11 13:22:17 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:22:17 +1000 (EST) Subject: PUPS In-Reply-To: <19970808214918.53692@dynamic.isdn.uiuc.edu> from "Mark D. Roth" at "Aug 8, 97 09:49:18 pm" Message-ID: <199708110322.NAA04948@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Mark D. Roth: > Warren, > > I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and > know next to nothing about. I'm looking for any info I might be able > to find on how to get this machine running, as well as any info I > might find about getting a Unix implementation for it. I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up, but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management (nor the memory) to get Unix running. > I saw reference to a mailing list on the webpage, but no information > on how to join. What can you tell me? Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight with regards to 11/03's. Cheers, Warren From sms at moe.2bsd.com Mon Aug 11 13:53:16 1997 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: PUPS Message-ID: <199708110353.UAA21891@moe.2bsd.com> Warren, Mark - > In article by Mark D. Roth: > > I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and > > know next to nothing about. I'm looking for any info I might be able > > I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the Quite correct. > paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up, > but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management > (nor the memory) to get Unix running. Warren - you're absolutely right. The 11/03 has a maximum memory (most were not fully populated) of 56kbytes and _no_ memory management. Any Unix (since the initial one on the PDP-7) requires at least two memory management states: kernel and user. Much later versions can take advantage of the 3rd mode (supervisor). Smallest machine I ever ran Unix on was an 11/23 (the development was done on a 11/70 because various programs were too large to run on a non split I/D machine such as the 11/23) and it was, shall we say, "interesting". Just enough memory (max of 248kb) to run one or two user processes at a time (we had a rather large kernel and some homebrew communications drivers) - you could get logged in and then each time you typed a command the shell would get swapped out to run your command ;). > Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone > with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight > with regards to 11/03's. You got it right - nothing to set straight. Steven Schultz From George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk Fri Aug 22 01:49:53 1997 From: George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk (George Coulouris) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:53 +0100 Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK In-Reply-To: <9708070839.AA04553@descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> References: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am Message-ID: Dear Michael, Many thanks for your offer. Sorry for the delay in replying. If you are still willing I would like to take up your offer. If you will mail me your physical mail address, I'll send you the tape. As far as I can remember the tape is a UNIX tar archive, that should be readable on the VMS machine and you could give the files back to me by ftp. (I'm taking up your offer rather than Tim Bradshaw's because you seem to have had more recent success with reading old tapes. Thanks again, George At 9:39 am +0100 7/8/97, Michael Engel wrote: * > * We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send * me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a * 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ... * At 3:22 pm +0100 7/8/97, Tim Bradshaw wrote: * * We have old-tape-reading-technology, so we could give it a try. No * promises at all though (I have to turn the drive back on &c, and it's * not altogether clear that it will work, though it did last time I * tried it), asnd it will take me ages to get around to it, being very * inefficient... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ George F. Coulouris | Computer Science Dept Professor of Computer Systems | QMW, University of London WWW: http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~george | Mile End Road Phone: +44 171 975 5201 (direct line) | London E1 4NS Fax: +44 181 980 6533 | United Kingdom Home phone: +44 171 485 5896 | pager: 01426 183113 | From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Aug 27 10:45:58 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:58 +1000 (EST) Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO Message-ID: <199708270045.KAA03801@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> All, Here is the latest email from SCO with regards to PDP-11 UNIX source licenses. I'll add one comment at the bottom. Please treat this as YOUR EYES ONLY. I haven't got permission from Dion to forward this on (yet), but I think that more pairs of eyes than just mine need to have a look at it for any problems. ----- Forwarded message from Dion ----- From: Dion X-Mailer: SCO OpenServer Mail Release 5.0 To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Touching Base! Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 12:45:07 PDT Warren, Good progress. We have some positive consensus developing. Here is the proposed license terms (roughly, not fully legalized yet). Please let me know if you see any problems with this proposal: Here are the terms that I think make sense: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- License terms: * the license covers the entire distributions (source code, binaries and documentation) of the following versions of UNIX: o 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX o 32V UNIX o PWB/UNIX o those portions of all 2BSD releases which are derived from UNIX source code * licensees have these rights wrt the binaries and source code of the above versions of UNIX: use store reproduce edit adapt enchance improve otherwise modify transmit electronically repackage * These rights are licensed to noncommercial users. The source may not be sold nor used to develop commercial versions of UNIX. * licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software * licensees have the right to allow noncommercial use the UNIX binaries on systems for which the product is licensed. (Note that the latter is already permitted, given SCO's binary license agreement for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX. We would also be happy with the following conditions imposed in the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes) * license is not transferable. * source code covered by the license cannot be distributed or disclosed to people not covered by the license. The licensees are permitted to collaborate on modifications and mutually share their modifications. * SCO is not required to provide copies of any source code, binaries or documentation with the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes License Fee: SCO charges a one-time license fee of $100 per licensee, for a site license for one organization. We may, at some future time, provide source distributions (if/when we can find the sources), but this is not committed. We know that the licensees have, between them, most of the needed sources. ----- End of forwarded message from Dion ----- My comment. The only thing I want to change is: * licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software becomes * licensees have the right to install UNIX software on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software This allows us to install source so as to modify it or to rebuild kernels etc. I briefly raised the issue of source distribution (SCO or me? FTP or CD-ROM?), but I suggested that we leave it until the licenses go on sale. Please email your comments on this to the mailing list (oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au). Thanks, Warren wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Aug 27 15:51:20 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:51:20 +1000 (EST) Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO In-Reply-To: <199708270539.WAA16297@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Aug 26, 97 10:39:11 pm" Message-ID: <199708270551.PAA00316@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Steven M. Schultz: > It looks to me that SCO has granted "us" every single thing we were > asking for. I've thought of a few more changes: In the wording from SCO, the status of `documentation' is unclear. The following should clear this up: + use the term software == `source, binaries and documentation' in many places where this is appropriate. + use the term `source' only where they want to restrict to licensees. + also, don't disclose `source' to people not covered by the SCO license or by existing UNIX software licenses from Western Electric and AT&T. Comments anybody? Warren From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Fri Aug 29 11:43:09 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:43:09 +1000 (EST) Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO In-Reply-To: <9708281506.AA29078@numbat05-an2.pa.dec.com> from "mcjones@pa.dec.com" at "Aug 28, 97 08:06:23 am" Message-ID: <199708290143.LAA03340@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by mcjones at pa.dec.com: > > > Maybe someone else can volunteer, if I organise the contents :-) > > There's one here at my workplace. I don't know how to use it myself. > I could probably get some help in burning one or two, but I don't > think it would be appropriate to burn dozens or hundreds. How many > licensees do you anticipate? There's 300 signatures on the petition. I'd hope that 1/2 of those will buy licenses, and probably most would like the stuff in easy-to-use form. I know that Steven Schultz has access to a writer too (hint hint!). I will probably buy another hard disk here for the PDP archive, and give access to license holders. I'd like to get users to suggest layout changes & what should be exploded etc. so that we can burn a 650M CD image directly from the archive. Currently, the archive is sitting at 250M, so there's room to explode many of the distributions stored there. We also need to sit down and catalogue this stuff so that it's not just a collection of random tapes. I'm slowly doing this & have done the most important stuff, see the Tapes/DETAILS file if you ftp in. But more work needs to be done. So hopefully, we can pass the archive (as a Rock Ridge image) to a few volunteers to burn CD-R copies. Anybody in Europe who would volunteer? Just an idea! Warren From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Sun Aug 31 12:41:29 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:41:29 +1000 (EST) Subject: PDP-11 Unix CD-ROM archive burn In-Reply-To: from Kevin Wright at "Aug 29, 97 09:24:27 am" Message-ID: <199708310241.MAA04803@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> In article by Kevin Wright: > I could very possibly volunteer to do one. I have access to my > companies cdrom burner. > > Subject change: > I own a PDP-11/23+ for which I'm constantly searching the Internet for > RT-11 and TSX+ documentation and software, as well as any other OS's > such as Unix. Do you have any such software/documentation in your > archive of which you would be willing to allow me a copy? Kevin, until you can buy a license from SCO (soon I hope), all I can offer are the binaries for 6th & 7th Edition. If you have an RK05 or RL02, then you can get disk images as part of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator, at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11-sims/Supnik_2.3 (or a similar URL, I'm typing from memory). If you don't have RK05 or RL02s, someone should be able to build a suitable disk image for you. I think you'll need to go 6th Edition as you have a /23. Warren