From mjcrehan at earthlink.net Wed Dec 1 01:59:21 1999 From: mjcrehan at earthlink.net (Martin Crehan) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:59:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Salon.com article on John Lions book Message-ID: <199911301559.HAA18132@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> The site Salon.com has an article: http://www.Salon1999.com/tech/feature/1999/11/30/lions/index.html on John Lions' book about Sixth Edition Unix, written by from a non-computer geek's viewpoint. Martin Crehan From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Dec 9 07:09:16 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:09:16 -0800 Subject: 2.11BSD boot looping In-Reply-To: <199911292207.OAA02606@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: <13505889943.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [I need to change the bootstrap] Okay, someone needs to explain what I should change then, I don't have any docs about MSCP. [I don't know how to use my mailer] Yes, I sent this twice. ^_^ ------- Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18420 for pups-liszt; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:20:56 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Thu Dec 9 14:11:55 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:11:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: 2.11BSD boot looping Message-ID: <199912090411.UAA06521@moe.2bsd.com> > From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" > [I need to change the bootstrap] > > Okay, someone needs to explain what I should change then, I don't have > any docs about MSCP. > > [I don't know how to use my mailer] > > Yes, I sent this twice. ^_^ I received 3 copies :) No docs for/about MSCP are required to install the bootblock. That would only be needed if you wanted to write a bootblock and/or driver. The documentation you do want to read is the 'disklabel(8)' manpage and in particular the "-B" option. disklabel -B ra0 should do what you want. You can also do it with a 'dd': You will need to be at a single user prompt since writes to raw disks for which the cooked counterpart is mounted are prohibited if the secure level of the system is greater than 0: dd if=/mdec/rauboot of=/dev/rra0a If, as I seem to recall, you can't boot the disk (image/whatever) because the wrong bootblock is present you will have to use the 'boot' program from a "bootable tape". This may entail using a "toggle in" tape boot (described in the 2.11 setup/installation documentation in fairly good detail). At the boot prompt (':') after booting from tape: : ra(0,0)unix .... kernel should load, print out the usual .... messages about memory size, etc # disklabel -B ra0 (or 'dd ...') In essence you're going thru the last part of system installation, you don't need to 'mkfs', 'restor', etc because the data is already present on the disk. Just skip all that and use the tape 'boot' program to load the kernel and then write the proper bootblock to disk. Steven From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Dec 10 07:18:27 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:18:27 -0800 Subject: 2.11BSD boot looping Message-ID: <13506153760.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Snip instructions for installing a bootstrap] No, I got the installation of the bootstrap just fine. I was told that the bootstrap for MSCP disks uses a bug in the UDA50 that some 3rd party controllers don't exhibit. (In my case, I have a Viking UDT SCSI controller) I was saying I needed to know where/how to change the bootstrap (modify the bootstrap, not use a different one) so that it will work. I got a pointer at some 3BSD stuff on Minnie, but that code used a boot ROM on the VAX 750 to get it's job done. I don't have any MSCP books so I don't know where or how to change the bootstrap to make it work on my machine. ------- Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22820 for pups-liszt; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:51:06 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Fri Dec 10 10:50:12 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:50:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: 2.11BSD boot looping Message-ID: <199912100050.QAA18487@moe.2bsd.com> > From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" > I was saying I needed to know where/how to change the bootstrap (modify the > bootstrap, not use a different one) so that it will work. Hmmm, ok - that wasn't clear. It read as if the documentation was needed to install a new/different bootblock. > I got a pointer at some 3BSD stuff on Minnie, but that code used a boot ROM on > the VAX 750 to get it's job done. Yep - same in 4BSD too, I remember thinking at one time "ah, I'll just use the 4BSD bootcode as a guide" only to find out it was calling into the ROMs. > I don't have any MSCP books so I don't know where or how to change the > bootstrap to make it work on my machine. IF the bug is what has been suspected so far then presenting a vector to the controller during the 4 step init process is what needs to be done. Looking at the standalone MSCP driver (/sys/pdpstand/ra.c) which has the logic to specify a vector even though interrupts are not use the logic is: if (rainit[ctlr] == 0) { again: raaddr->raip = 0; if (ra_step(raaddr, RA_STEP1, 1)) goto again; raaddr->rasa = RA_ERR | (0154/4); if (ra_step(raaddr, RA_STEP2, 2)) goto again; iomapadr(&racom->ra_ca.ca_ringbase, &bae, &lo16); raaddr->rasa = lo16; if (ra_step(raaddr, RA_STEP3, 3)) goto again; raaddr->rasa = bae; if (ra_step(raaddr, RA_STEP4, 4)) goto again; raaddr->rasa = RA_GO; if (racmd(M_OP_STCON, io) < 0) { printf("%s STCON err\n", devname(io)); return(-1); } rainit[ctlr] = 1; } Thus it is only done on 'first open'. It is in step 1 that the vector divided by 4 needs to be "OR"'d into the work presented to the controller. The ra boot block code (/sys/mdec/rauboot.s) has a loop: / / RA initialize controller / mov $RASTEP1,r0 mov raip,r1 clr (r1)+ / go through controller init seq. mov $icons,r2 1: bit r0,(r1) beq 1b ---->>>> mov (r2)+,(r1) asl r0 bpl 1b mov $ra+RARSPREF,*$ra+RARSPL / set controller characteristics mov $ra+RACMDREF,*$ra+RACMDL mov $RASTCON,r0 jsr pc,racmd mov unit,*$ra+RAUNIT / bring boot unit online mov $RAONLIN,r0 jsr pc,racmd ... I suspect that the loop at ---->>> needs to be modified to do something special for step 1. Steve From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au Sun Dec 12 21:10:32 1999 From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:10:32 +1100 (EST) Subject: Temporary Mail List Suspension Message-ID: <199912121110.WAA40763@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> [ apologies to those who receive this e-mail multiple times ] This e-mail is being sent to you via a mailing list run on the machine minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au. I've been informed that our entire network is going to be shut down from Friday 24 December until Monday 3 January 2000. In other words, all services on Minnie (web, ftp, CGI scripts, this mailing list) will be temporarily unavailable during this period. Minnie, as always, will be sitting here under my desk, waiting for someone to talk to her. So as soon as the routers come back up, Minnie will reappear. I'll take this opportunity to wish everybody a happy festive season; take it safe on the roads, don't go anywhere near the CBD of Sydney on New Year's Eve, and we'll catch you again in 2000, assuming your Microsloth Windoze box isn't infected with gazillions of viruses :-) Cheers all, Warren Toomey wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 19:18:14 1999 From: arno at usn.nl (Arno Griffioen) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:18:14 +0100 (CET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912130918.KAA01758@lost.usn.nl> OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked along the way. No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??) What are my options to get 2.11BSD running on this beast? I have a uVAX 3600 running NetBSD, so I could possibly dump a raw filesystem image onto one of the RA92's and perhaps boot the 11/94 off of it. Is this feasible? I haven't looked into it yet.. I was thinking of using one of those TU58 emulators on the PC, but I didn't find any mention of booting an 11/94 of these tape drives or installing UNIX from it.. I don't have any other UNIBUS cards, so I can't plug my TK70 into the 11/94.. Any thoughts on the subject are welcome.. Bye, Arno. -- PSINetworks Europe Fax: +31-23-5699841 | One disk to rule them all, Siriusdreef 34 Tel: +31-23-5699840 | One disk to bind them, 2132WT Hoofddorp+--------------------------------+ One disk to hold the files The Netherlands | * Musical Interlude * | And in the darkness grind 'em ----------------+--------------------------------+------------------------------ We say Retribution, We say Vengeance is bliss, We say Revolution, With a Cast-Iron fist! (Megadeth, 'The Disintegrators') -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA46129 for pups-liszt; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:36:50 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Tue Dec 14 05:35:35 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:35:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912131935.LAA18041@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From: Arno Griffioen > > OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just > 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked Congratulations on getting a /94 with RA92 drives! Condolences on the tape drive being junked. > No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??) In the US there are many places which sell used DEC equipment but I do not know of any in the Netherlands. If at all possible get a DELUA insetad - less power hungry and fewer bugs. > What are my options to get 2.11BSD running on this beast? > > I have a uVAX 3600 running NetBSD, so I could possibly dump a raw > filesystem image onto one of the RA92's and perhaps boot the 11/94 > off of it. Is this feasible? I haven't looked into it yet.. Yes, it should be possible. You will need to run one of the emulators (either Bob Supnik's or Willi Begemot's "P11"). The tricky part will be in the geometry/size of the disk image. The emulators do not know about MSCP drives so you will have to go thru the bootstrap process using an SMD ('xp' driver) drive and pretend you have a RP06 or 7. Then at the last minute install the MSCP bootblock. DD that image to an RA92 and hoo that up to the /94. The problem you will most likely encounter is that the size will not be exactly right for the last partition. Experimenting with the standalone 'disklabel' program and adjusting the sizes/geometry may be needed. If the size is changed then 'fsck -s' to force a rebuild of the freelist will be needed. Experimentation - I think it'd take a few tries to get it right ;) > I was thinking of using one of those TU58 emulators on the PC, but I > didn't find any mention of booting an 11/94 of these tape drives > or installing UNIX from it.. No support for the TU58 in the kernel or boot program. At 256kb it's barely large enough to hold the standalone programs much less a dump of the root filesystem or anything like that. Steven Schultz sms at moe.2bsd.com From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com Tue Dec 14 05:59:34 1999 From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:59:34 -0500 Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <991213145934.21e008e3@trailing-edge.com> >> I was thinking of using one of those TU58 emulators on the PC, but I >> didn't find any mention of booting an 11/94 of these tape drives >> or installing UNIX from it.. > No support for the TU58 in the kernel or boot program. At 256kb > it's barely large enough to hold the standalone programs much less > a dump of the root filesystem or anything like that. Even if there was support, it'd be just plain cruel, even with emulated TU58's. Reminds me of "The Wagner Ring Cycle on Convenient 45's". -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA46635 for pups-liszt; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:06:49 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Tue Dec 14 06:56:53 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:56:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912132056.MAA18516@moe.2bsd.com> > From: Tim Shoppa > > Even if there was support, it'd be just plain cruel, even with emulated > TU58's. Reminds me of "The Wagner Ring Cycle on Convenient 45's". That wasn't too bad. You should try Das Rheingold on 78's :) Steve Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA49123 for pups-liszt; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:28:33 +1100 (EST) From arno at usn.nl Tue Dec 14 17:28:16 1999 From: arno at usn.nl (Arno Griffioen) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:28:16 +0100 (CET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912131935.LAA18041@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Dec 13, 1999 11:35:35 am" Message-ID: <199912140728.IAA07390@lost.usn.nl> > > OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just > > 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked > > > Congratulations on getting a /94 with RA92 drives! Condolences > on the tape drive being junked. The '94 is way cool! I'm amazed at the extensive menu-based boot ROM in this thing. At least the RA92's are quite a bit more 'civilized' than the RA82 on my uVAX which is more like a howling banshee.. Pity I have little UNIBUS stuff.. Most of my other DEC hardware is QBUS based, otherwise I wouldn't have had the problem.. I have an UC07 SCSI controller I could use for a while (but it's QBUS) to hook up a tape drive. The machine itself seems to work fine (and seems to be pretty much 'lodaded'). Runs RSX-11 now (at least a partial setup as I wasn't able to get all drives) > > No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??) > > In the US there are many places which sell used DEC equipment but > I do not know of any in the Netherlands. If at all possible get > a DELUA insetad - less power hungry and fewer bugs. Any network connection will be OK.. I hope BSD has PPP support? That should give at least some rudimentary network connectivity (even if it's just 9600) > RP06 or 7. Then at the last minute install the MSCP bootblock. > DD that image to an RA92 and hoo that up to the /94. Worth a shot.. > The problem you will most likely encounter is that the size will not > be exactly right for the last partition. Experimenting with the > standalone 'disklabel' program and adjusting the sizes/geometry may > be needed. If the size is changed then 'fsck -s' to force a > rebuild of the freelist will be needed. Or I could use 1 RA92 (with the problem you describe) and use it to run the install on the second drive? (partitioning that properly) > No support for the TU58 in the kernel or boot program. At 256kb > it's barely large enough to hold the standalone programs much less > a dump of the root filesystem or anything like that. OK. Got that. Guess my first search will be for either an UNIBUS SCSI controller or a TK50/TK70 controller as I still have some drives for those.. I have little or no 9-track reel tape stuff :-) Thanx for the help! Bye, Arno. -- PSINetworks Europe Fax: +31-23-5699841 | One disk to rule them all, Siriusdreef 34 Tel: +31-23-5699840 | One disk to bind them, 2132WT Hoofddorp+--------------------------------+ One disk to hold the files The Netherlands | * Musical Interlude * | And in the darkness grind 'em ----------------+--------------------------------+------------------------------ We say Retribution, We say Vengeance is bliss, We say Revolution, With a Cast-Iron fist! (Megadeth, 'The Disintegrators') -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sms at moe.2bsd.com Wed Dec 15 07:19:27 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:19:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912142119.NAA06698@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 23:28:32 1999 > The '94 is way cool! I'm amazed at the extensive menu-based boot ROM in Yep - I have seen that on the 11/93 at my place. Nice. Having the "toyclock" to get the date/time from is real good too. > this thing. At least the RA92's are quite a bit more 'civilized' than the > RA82 on my uVAX which is more like a howling banshee.. Use less power and are more reliable (also larger capacity I believe) > otherwise I wouldn't have had the problem.. I have an UC07 SCSI controller > I could use for a while (but it's QBUS) to hook up a tape drive. As I was reminded a short time ago - don't put a Qbus board into a Unibus machine (or the other way around) :-) > Any network connection will be OK.. I hope BSD has PPP support? That > should give at least some rudimentary network connectivity (even if it's > just 9600) SL/IP yes but 2.11 predates PPP and I am not sure there is room in the kernel/networking for PPP (which is a much more complex protocol). I've run SL/IP just fine - and if you have the (fairly) recent updates to enable hardware flowcontrol you can run considerably faster than 9600 and not worry about dropped characters or truncated packets. > Or I could use 1 RA92 (with the problem you describe) and use it to > run the install on the second drive? (partitioning that properly) Ah, yes indeed! As long as the kernel's idea of the drive size is less than what the actual disk image is then you should not have any problems - i.e. if you put an RA60 sized image on an RA92 it should work (at least well enough to configure the 2nd drive correctly). Obviously the other way around would not work ;) > Guess my first search will be for either an UNIBUS SCSI controller or > a TK50/TK70 controller as I still have some drives for those.. A TK70 controller will run a TK50 drive very nicely _and_ offer the benefit of the buffer cache (which speeds things up greatly). I do not know if there was a Unibus TK50 adaptor though. An inexpensive TS05 would be a real nice thing to have about now ;) Steve Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA53230 for pups-liszt; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:56:14 +1100 (EST) From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com Wed Dec 15 07:55:41 1999 From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:55:41 -0500 Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <991214165541.246000ac@trailing-edge.com> >> From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 23:28:32 1999 >> The '94 is way cool! I'm amazed at the extensive menu-based boot ROM in > Yep - I have seen that on the 11/93 at my place. Nice. Having the > "toyclock" to get the date/time from is real good too. As long as you've updated to the Y2K-compliant KDJ11-E firmware, that is. The "old" firmware will do fine up until the end of 28-Feb-2000, when it will promptly wrap back around to 1990. You can use 2.11BSD 'toyset' (or the RSX-11 or RT-11 equivalent) to set the TOY clock after that date, but at power on it'll reset back to 1990. See the discussions in vmsnet.pdp-11 earlier this year for the ordering code and cost (I think it's around $25.00) for the new 11/93 and 11/94 firmware. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From arno at usn.nl Thu Dec 16 19:42:34 1999 From: arno at usn.nl (Arno Griffioen) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:42:34 +0100 (CET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <991214165541.246000ac@trailing-edge.com> from Tim Shoppa at "Dec 14, 1999 4:55:41 pm" Message-ID: <199912160942.KAA15079@lost.usn.nl> > The "old" firmware will do fine up until the end of 28-Feb-2000, when it > will promptly wrap back around to 1990. You can use 2.11BSD 'toyset' > (or the RSX-11 or RT-11 equivalent) to set the TOY clock after that date, > but at power on it'll reset back to 1990. No prob.. If I get a SLIP link up and running I'll just suck down the right date from an NTP server on my net which is synchronized to a radio clock. Heck, I could just hook up a clock receiver to the machine directly! I hardly ever bother to set hardware clocks in my machines anymore. The batteries in my VAX for the clock and stuff ran out quite a while ago, but no problem either.. > See the discussions in vmsnet.pdp-11 earlier this year for the ordering > code and cost (I think it's around $25.00) for the new 11/93 and 11/94 > firmware. Any idea about version numbers I could check? This machine was used until pretty recently in a production environment and maintained pretty well on the hardware/firmware level. I don't think it was decomissioned because of Y2K, but because they were told that they could provide a 'better' service with a Micro$oft solution. Last thing I heard is that the new solution is sorta falling apart all over the place.. Not surprising to me, but they're not getting this machine back! :-) Bye, Arno. -- PSINetworks Europe Fax: +31-23-5699841 | One disk to rule them all, Siriusdreef 34 Tel: +31-23-5699840 | One disk to bind them, 2132WT Hoofddorp+--------------------------------+ One disk to hold the files The Netherlands | * Musical Interlude * | And in the darkness grind 'em ----------------+--------------------------------+------------------------------ We say Retribution, We say Vengeance is bliss, We say Revolution, With a Cast-Iron fist! (Megadeth, 'The Disintegrators') -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bqt at Update.UU.SE Sat Dec 18 02:10:25 1999 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:10:25 +0100 (MET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912131935.LAA18041@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > From: Arno Griffioen > > > > OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just > > 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked > > > Congratulations on getting a /94 with RA92 drives! Condolences > on the tape drive being junked. Agree. I'd like to get my hands on a /94 myself... :-) > > No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??) > > In the US there are many places which sell used DEC equipment but > I do not know of any in the Netherlands. If at all possible get > a DELUA insetad - less power hungry and fewer bugs. Less powerhungry, yes. It also takes less space on the Unibus, and is faster. But I wasn't aware that the DEUNA had any more bugs than the DELUA. Please enlight me. (I only use DELUAs myself, but I have one or two DEUNAs lying around). Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA70763 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 03:31:16 +1100 (EST) From bqt at Update.UU.SE Sat Dec 18 02:30:33 1999 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:30:33 +0100 (MET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912142119.NAA06698@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > > > From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 23:28:32 1999 > > this thing. At least the RA92's are quite a bit more 'civilized' than the > > RA82 on my uVAX which is more like a howling banshee.. > > Use less power and are more reliable (also larger capacity I believe) RA82: 622 MB RA92: 1.2GB All with reservations about my memory going bad... :-) > > Guess my first search will be for either an UNIBUS SCSI controller or > > a TK50/TK70 controller as I still have some drives for those.. > > A TK70 controller will run a TK50 drive very nicely _and_ offer > the benefit of the buffer cache (which speeds things up greatly). I > do not know if there was a Unibus TK50 adaptor though. TUK50 was (is) the name of that controller. I've actually played with a VAX-11/750 with a TK50 once upon a time many moons ago. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA73336 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 05:38:00 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Sat Dec 18 04:26:03 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:26:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912171826.KAA04099@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From: Johnny Billquist > RA82: 622 MB > RA92: 1.2GB That sounds a little small. AH, let me go check /etc/disktab on the PDP-11 The RA90 was ~1.2GB: :pc#2376153:oc#0:bc#1024:fc#1024: and the RA92 was closer to 1.4GB: :pc#2940951:oc#0:bc#1024:fc#1024: > > A TK70 controller will run a TK50 drive very nicely _and_ offer > > TUK50 was (is) the name of that controller. I've actually played with a > VAX-11/750 with a TK50 once upon a time many moons ago. Was there a TUK70 - or was the TK70 for the Qbus systems only? Steven Schultz sms at moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA73337 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 05:38:01 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Sat Dec 18 04:22:39 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:22:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912171822.KAA04095@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From: Johnny Billquist > Agree. I'd like to get my hands on a /94 myself... :-) An 11/93 would be nice too, Qbus systems use less power and make less noise from what I have seen. > Less powerhungry, yes. It also takes less space on the Unibus, and is > faster. But I wasn't aware that the DEUNA had any more bugs than the > DELUA. Please enlight me. (I only use DELUAs myself, but I have one or two > DEUNAs lying around). I know the DEQNA had firmware problems that could cause the board to lock up under load - perhaps I was confusing the DEQNA and DEUNA. The later Qbus board (DELQA) was much nicer in the same way that the DELUA is better than the DEUNA. Steven Schultz sms at moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA73620 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:10:57 +1100 (EST) From bqt at Update.UU.SE Sat Dec 18 05:10:31 1999 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:10:31 +0100 (MET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912171822.KAA04095@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > > > From: Johnny Billquist > > Agree. I'd like to get my hands on a /94 myself... :-) > > An 11/93 would be nice too, Qbus systems use less power and make less > noise from what I have seen. Well, I'm in love with Unibus systems... I have an 11/84 at home, and of course, there is always Magica, which is an 11/70... :-) (And then we have Knase, which is our 11/70 with 2.11BSD. Unfortunately, both systems are powered off right now because of cooling problems. :-( > > Less powerhungry, yes. It also takes less space on the Unibus, and is > > faster. But I wasn't aware that the DEUNA had any more bugs than the > > DELUA. Please enlight me. (I only use DELUAs myself, but I have one or two > > DEUNAs lying around). > > I know the DEQNA had firmware problems that could cause the board to > lock up under load - perhaps I was confusing the DEQNA and DEUNA. > The later Qbus board (DELQA) was much nicer in the same way that the > DELUA is better than the DEUNA. I don't think the DEUNA has that bug which riddles the DEQNA. Also, the DEUNA/DELUA loads some microcode when I start using them, this is running RSX. That microcode is located on the RSX system. Beats me what it is for, or anything. Worse (parhaps) is that the device driver for the DEUNA/DELUA don't work with any Q-bus models, which means I don't have a driver for Q-bus machines... Anybody know anything more about this? I really don't care to dig around the sources here, and also, I don't have the sources to all components. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA73644 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:13:06 +1100 (EST) From bqt at Update.UU.SE Sat Dec 18 05:12:45 1999 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:12:45 +0100 (MET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912171826.KAA04099@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > > > From: Johnny Billquist > > RA82: 622 MB > > RA92: 1.2GB > > That sounds a little small. AH, let me go check /etc/disktab on > the PDP-11 > > The RA90 was ~1.2GB: > > :pc#2376153:oc#0:bc#1024:fc#1024: > > and the RA92 was closer to 1.4GB: > > :pc#2940951:oc#0:bc#1024:fc#1024: You got me. :-) > > > A TK70 controller will run a TK50 drive very nicely _and_ offer > > > > TUK50 was (is) the name of that controller. I've actually played with a > > VAX-11/750 with a TK50 once upon a time many moons ago. > > Was there a TUK70 - or was the TK70 for the Qbus systems only? Yes, Q-bus only. When the TK70 came out, I guess DEC had decided to stop development of Unibus peripherials. I very much doubt they sold that many TUK50, or RUX50 controllers. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From mjcrehan at earthlink.net Wed Dec 1 01:59:21 1999 From: mjcrehan at earthlink.net (Martin Crehan) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:59:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Salon.com article on John Lions book Message-ID: <199911301559.HAA18132@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> The site Salon.com has an article: http://www.Salon1999.com/tech/feature/1999/11/30/lions/index.html on John Lions' book about Sixth Edition Unix, written by from a non-computer geek's viewpoint. Martin Crehan From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Dec 9 07:09:16 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:09:16 -0800 Subject: 2.11BSD boot looping In-Reply-To: <199911292207.OAA02606@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: <13505889943.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [I need to change the bootstrap] Okay, someone needs to explain what I should change then, I don't have any docs about MSCP. [I don't know how to use my mailer] Yes, I sent this twice. ^_^ ------- Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18420 for pups-liszt; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:20:56 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Thu Dec 9 14:11:55 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:11:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: 2.11BSD boot looping Message-ID: <199912090411.UAA06521@moe.2bsd.com> > From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" > [I need to change the bootstrap] > > Okay, someone needs to explain what I should change then, I don't have > any docs about MSCP. > > [I don't know how to use my mailer] > > Yes, I sent this twice. ^_^ I received 3 copies :) No docs for/about MSCP are required to install the bootblock. That would only be needed if you wanted to write a bootblock and/or driver. The documentation you do want to read is the 'disklabel(8)' manpage and in particular the "-B" option. disklabel -B ra0 should do what you want. You can also do it with a 'dd': You will need to be at a single user prompt since writes to raw disks for which the cooked counterpart is mounted are prohibited if the secure level of the system is greater than 0: dd if=/mdec/rauboot of=/dev/rra0a If, as I seem to recall, you can't boot the disk (image/whatever) because the wrong bootblock is present you will have to use the 'boot' program from a "bootable tape". This may entail using a "toggle in" tape boot (described in the 2.11 setup/installation documentation in fairly good detail). At the boot prompt (':') after booting from tape: : ra(0,0)unix .... kernel should load, print out the usual .... messages about memory size, etc # disklabel -B ra0 (or 'dd ...') In essence you're going thru the last part of system installation, you don't need to 'mkfs', 'restor', etc because the data is already present on the disk. Just skip all that and use the tape 'boot' program to load the kernel and then write the proper bootblock to disk. Steven From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Dec 10 07:18:27 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:18:27 -0800 Subject: 2.11BSD boot looping Message-ID: <13506153760.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Snip instructions for installing a bootstrap] No, I got the installation of the bootstrap just fine. I was told that the bootstrap for MSCP disks uses a bug in the UDA50 that some 3rd party controllers don't exhibit. (In my case, I have a Viking UDT SCSI controller) I was saying I needed to know where/how to change the bootstrap (modify the bootstrap, not use a different one) so that it will work. I got a pointer at some 3BSD stuff on Minnie, but that code used a boot ROM on the VAX 750 to get it's job done. I don't have any MSCP books so I don't know where or how to change the bootstrap to make it work on my machine. ------- Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22820 for pups-liszt; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:51:06 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Fri Dec 10 10:50:12 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 16:50:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: 2.11BSD boot looping Message-ID: <199912100050.QAA18487@moe.2bsd.com> > From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" > I was saying I needed to know where/how to change the bootstrap (modify the > bootstrap, not use a different one) so that it will work. Hmmm, ok - that wasn't clear. It read as if the documentation was needed to install a new/different bootblock. > I got a pointer at some 3BSD stuff on Minnie, but that code used a boot ROM on > the VAX 750 to get it's job done. Yep - same in 4BSD too, I remember thinking at one time "ah, I'll just use the 4BSD bootcode as a guide" only to find out it was calling into the ROMs. > I don't have any MSCP books so I don't know where or how to change the > bootstrap to make it work on my machine. IF the bug is what has been suspected so far then presenting a vector to the controller during the 4 step init process is what needs to be done. Looking at the standalone MSCP driver (/sys/pdpstand/ra.c) which has the logic to specify a vector even though interrupts are not use the logic is: if (rainit[ctlr] == 0) { again: raaddr->raip = 0; if (ra_step(raaddr, RA_STEP1, 1)) goto again; raaddr->rasa = RA_ERR | (0154/4); if (ra_step(raaddr, RA_STEP2, 2)) goto again; iomapadr(&racom->ra_ca.ca_ringbase, &bae, &lo16); raaddr->rasa = lo16; if (ra_step(raaddr, RA_STEP3, 3)) goto again; raaddr->rasa = bae; if (ra_step(raaddr, RA_STEP4, 4)) goto again; raaddr->rasa = RA_GO; if (racmd(M_OP_STCON, io) < 0) { printf("%s STCON err\n", devname(io)); return(-1); } rainit[ctlr] = 1; } Thus it is only done on 'first open'. It is in step 1 that the vector divided by 4 needs to be "OR"'d into the work presented to the controller. The ra boot block code (/sys/mdec/rauboot.s) has a loop: / / RA initialize controller / mov $RASTEP1,r0 mov raip,r1 clr (r1)+ / go through controller init seq. mov $icons,r2 1: bit r0,(r1) beq 1b ---->>>> mov (r2)+,(r1) asl r0 bpl 1b mov $ra+RARSPREF,*$ra+RARSPL / set controller characteristics mov $ra+RACMDREF,*$ra+RACMDL mov $RASTCON,r0 jsr pc,racmd mov unit,*$ra+RAUNIT / bring boot unit online mov $RAONLIN,r0 jsr pc,racmd ... I suspect that the loop at ---->>> needs to be modified to do something special for step 1. Steve From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au Sun Dec 12 21:10:32 1999 From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:10:32 +1100 (EST) Subject: Temporary Mail List Suspension Message-ID: <199912121110.WAA40763@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> [ apologies to those who receive this e-mail multiple times ] This e-mail is being sent to you via a mailing list run on the machine minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au. I've been informed that our entire network is going to be shut down from Friday 24 December until Monday 3 January 2000. In other words, all services on Minnie (web, ftp, CGI scripts, this mailing list) will be temporarily unavailable during this period. Minnie, as always, will be sitting here under my desk, waiting for someone to talk to her. So as soon as the routers come back up, Minnie will reappear. I'll take this opportunity to wish everybody a happy festive season; take it safe on the roads, don't go anywhere near the CBD of Sydney on New Year's Eve, and we'll catch you again in 2000, assuming your Microsloth Windoze box isn't infected with gazillions of viruses :-) Cheers all, Warren Toomey wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 19:18:14 1999 From: arno at usn.nl (Arno Griffioen) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:18:14 +0100 (CET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912130918.KAA01758@lost.usn.nl> OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked along the way. No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??) What are my options to get 2.11BSD running on this beast? I have a uVAX 3600 running NetBSD, so I could possibly dump a raw filesystem image onto one of the RA92's and perhaps boot the 11/94 off of it. Is this feasible? I haven't looked into it yet.. I was thinking of using one of those TU58 emulators on the PC, but I didn't find any mention of booting an 11/94 of these tape drives or installing UNIX from it.. I don't have any other UNIBUS cards, so I can't plug my TK70 into the 11/94.. Any thoughts on the subject are welcome.. Bye, Arno. -- PSINetworks Europe Fax: +31-23-5699841 | One disk to rule them all, Siriusdreef 34 Tel: +31-23-5699840 | One disk to bind them, 2132WT Hoofddorp+--------------------------------+ One disk to hold the files The Netherlands | * Musical Interlude * | And in the darkness grind 'em ----------------+--------------------------------+------------------------------ We say Retribution, We say Vengeance is bliss, We say Revolution, With a Cast-Iron fist! (Megadeth, 'The Disintegrators') -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA46129 for pups-liszt; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:36:50 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Tue Dec 14 05:35:35 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:35:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912131935.LAA18041@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From: Arno Griffioen > > OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just > 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked Congratulations on getting a /94 with RA92 drives! Condolences on the tape drive being junked. > No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??) In the US there are many places which sell used DEC equipment but I do not know of any in the Netherlands. If at all possible get a DELUA insetad - less power hungry and fewer bugs. > What are my options to get 2.11BSD running on this beast? > > I have a uVAX 3600 running NetBSD, so I could possibly dump a raw > filesystem image onto one of the RA92's and perhaps boot the 11/94 > off of it. Is this feasible? I haven't looked into it yet.. Yes, it should be possible. You will need to run one of the emulators (either Bob Supnik's or Willi Begemot's "P11"). The tricky part will be in the geometry/size of the disk image. The emulators do not know about MSCP drives so you will have to go thru the bootstrap process using an SMD ('xp' driver) drive and pretend you have a RP06 or 7. Then at the last minute install the MSCP bootblock. DD that image to an RA92 and hoo that up to the /94. The problem you will most likely encounter is that the size will not be exactly right for the last partition. Experimenting with the standalone 'disklabel' program and adjusting the sizes/geometry may be needed. If the size is changed then 'fsck -s' to force a rebuild of the freelist will be needed. Experimentation - I think it'd take a few tries to get it right ;) > I was thinking of using one of those TU58 emulators on the PC, but I > didn't find any mention of booting an 11/94 of these tape drives > or installing UNIX from it.. No support for the TU58 in the kernel or boot program. At 256kb it's barely large enough to hold the standalone programs much less a dump of the root filesystem or anything like that. Steven Schultz sms at moe.2bsd.com From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com Tue Dec 14 05:59:34 1999 From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:59:34 -0500 Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <991213145934.21e008e3@trailing-edge.com> >> I was thinking of using one of those TU58 emulators on the PC, but I >> didn't find any mention of booting an 11/94 of these tape drives >> or installing UNIX from it.. > No support for the TU58 in the kernel or boot program. At 256kb > it's barely large enough to hold the standalone programs much less > a dump of the root filesystem or anything like that. Even if there was support, it'd be just plain cruel, even with emulated TU58's. Reminds me of "The Wagner Ring Cycle on Convenient 45's". -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA46635 for pups-liszt; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:06:49 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Tue Dec 14 06:56:53 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:56:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912132056.MAA18516@moe.2bsd.com> > From: Tim Shoppa > > Even if there was support, it'd be just plain cruel, even with emulated > TU58's. Reminds me of "The Wagner Ring Cycle on Convenient 45's". That wasn't too bad. You should try Das Rheingold on 78's :) Steve Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA49123 for pups-liszt; Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:28:33 +1100 (EST) From arno at usn.nl Tue Dec 14 17:28:16 1999 From: arno at usn.nl (Arno Griffioen) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:28:16 +0100 (CET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912131935.LAA18041@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Dec 13, 1999 11:35:35 am" Message-ID: <199912140728.IAA07390@lost.usn.nl> > > OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just > > 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked > > > Congratulations on getting a /94 with RA92 drives! Condolences > on the tape drive being junked. The '94 is way cool! I'm amazed at the extensive menu-based boot ROM in this thing. At least the RA92's are quite a bit more 'civilized' than the RA82 on my uVAX which is more like a howling banshee.. Pity I have little UNIBUS stuff.. Most of my other DEC hardware is QBUS based, otherwise I wouldn't have had the problem.. I have an UC07 SCSI controller I could use for a while (but it's QBUS) to hook up a tape drive. The machine itself seems to work fine (and seems to be pretty much 'lodaded'). Runs RSX-11 now (at least a partial setup as I wasn't able to get all drives) > > No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??) > > In the US there are many places which sell used DEC equipment but > I do not know of any in the Netherlands. If at all possible get > a DELUA insetad - less power hungry and fewer bugs. Any network connection will be OK.. I hope BSD has PPP support? That should give at least some rudimentary network connectivity (even if it's just 9600) > RP06 or 7. Then at the last minute install the MSCP bootblock. > DD that image to an RA92 and hoo that up to the /94. Worth a shot.. > The problem you will most likely encounter is that the size will not > be exactly right for the last partition. Experimenting with the > standalone 'disklabel' program and adjusting the sizes/geometry may > be needed. If the size is changed then 'fsck -s' to force a > rebuild of the freelist will be needed. Or I could use 1 RA92 (with the problem you describe) and use it to run the install on the second drive? (partitioning that properly) > No support for the TU58 in the kernel or boot program. At 256kb > it's barely large enough to hold the standalone programs much less > a dump of the root filesystem or anything like that. OK. Got that. Guess my first search will be for either an UNIBUS SCSI controller or a TK50/TK70 controller as I still have some drives for those.. I have little or no 9-track reel tape stuff :-) Thanx for the help! Bye, Arno. -- PSINetworks Europe Fax: +31-23-5699841 | One disk to rule them all, Siriusdreef 34 Tel: +31-23-5699840 | One disk to bind them, 2132WT Hoofddorp+--------------------------------+ One disk to hold the files The Netherlands | * Musical Interlude * | And in the darkness grind 'em ----------------+--------------------------------+------------------------------ We say Retribution, We say Vengeance is bliss, We say Revolution, With a Cast-Iron fist! (Megadeth, 'The Disintegrators') -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sms at moe.2bsd.com Wed Dec 15 07:19:27 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:19:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912142119.NAA06698@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 23:28:32 1999 > The '94 is way cool! I'm amazed at the extensive menu-based boot ROM in Yep - I have seen that on the 11/93 at my place. Nice. Having the "toyclock" to get the date/time from is real good too. > this thing. At least the RA92's are quite a bit more 'civilized' than the > RA82 on my uVAX which is more like a howling banshee.. Use less power and are more reliable (also larger capacity I believe) > otherwise I wouldn't have had the problem.. I have an UC07 SCSI controller > I could use for a while (but it's QBUS) to hook up a tape drive. As I was reminded a short time ago - don't put a Qbus board into a Unibus machine (or the other way around) :-) > Any network connection will be OK.. I hope BSD has PPP support? That > should give at least some rudimentary network connectivity (even if it's > just 9600) SL/IP yes but 2.11 predates PPP and I am not sure there is room in the kernel/networking for PPP (which is a much more complex protocol). I've run SL/IP just fine - and if you have the (fairly) recent updates to enable hardware flowcontrol you can run considerably faster than 9600 and not worry about dropped characters or truncated packets. > Or I could use 1 RA92 (with the problem you describe) and use it to > run the install on the second drive? (partitioning that properly) Ah, yes indeed! As long as the kernel's idea of the drive size is less than what the actual disk image is then you should not have any problems - i.e. if you put an RA60 sized image on an RA92 it should work (at least well enough to configure the 2nd drive correctly). Obviously the other way around would not work ;) > Guess my first search will be for either an UNIBUS SCSI controller or > a TK50/TK70 controller as I still have some drives for those.. A TK70 controller will run a TK50 drive very nicely _and_ offer the benefit of the buffer cache (which speeds things up greatly). I do not know if there was a Unibus TK50 adaptor though. An inexpensive TS05 would be a real nice thing to have about now ;) Steve Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA53230 for pups-liszt; Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:56:14 +1100 (EST) From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com Wed Dec 15 07:55:41 1999 From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:55:41 -0500 Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <991214165541.246000ac@trailing-edge.com> >> From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 23:28:32 1999 >> The '94 is way cool! I'm amazed at the extensive menu-based boot ROM in > Yep - I have seen that on the 11/93 at my place. Nice. Having the > "toyclock" to get the date/time from is real good too. As long as you've updated to the Y2K-compliant KDJ11-E firmware, that is. The "old" firmware will do fine up until the end of 28-Feb-2000, when it will promptly wrap back around to 1990. You can use 2.11BSD 'toyset' (or the RSX-11 or RT-11 equivalent) to set the TOY clock after that date, but at power on it'll reset back to 1990. See the discussions in vmsnet.pdp-11 earlier this year for the ordering code and cost (I think it's around $25.00) for the new 11/93 and 11/94 firmware. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From arno at usn.nl Thu Dec 16 19:42:34 1999 From: arno at usn.nl (Arno Griffioen) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:42:34 +0100 (CET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <991214165541.246000ac@trailing-edge.com> from Tim Shoppa at "Dec 14, 1999 4:55:41 pm" Message-ID: <199912160942.KAA15079@lost.usn.nl> > The "old" firmware will do fine up until the end of 28-Feb-2000, when it > will promptly wrap back around to 1990. You can use 2.11BSD 'toyset' > (or the RSX-11 or RT-11 equivalent) to set the TOY clock after that date, > but at power on it'll reset back to 1990. No prob.. If I get a SLIP link up and running I'll just suck down the right date from an NTP server on my net which is synchronized to a radio clock. Heck, I could just hook up a clock receiver to the machine directly! I hardly ever bother to set hardware clocks in my machines anymore. The batteries in my VAX for the clock and stuff ran out quite a while ago, but no problem either.. > See the discussions in vmsnet.pdp-11 earlier this year for the ordering > code and cost (I think it's around $25.00) for the new 11/93 and 11/94 > firmware. Any idea about version numbers I could check? This machine was used until pretty recently in a production environment and maintained pretty well on the hardware/firmware level. I don't think it was decomissioned because of Y2K, but because they were told that they could provide a 'better' service with a Micro$oft solution. Last thing I heard is that the new solution is sorta falling apart all over the place.. Not surprising to me, but they're not getting this machine back! :-) Bye, Arno. -- PSINetworks Europe Fax: +31-23-5699841 | One disk to rule them all, Siriusdreef 34 Tel: +31-23-5699840 | One disk to bind them, 2132WT Hoofddorp+--------------------------------+ One disk to hold the files The Netherlands | * Musical Interlude * | And in the darkness grind 'em ----------------+--------------------------------+------------------------------ We say Retribution, We say Vengeance is bliss, We say Revolution, With a Cast-Iron fist! (Megadeth, 'The Disintegrators') -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bqt at Update.UU.SE Sat Dec 18 02:10:25 1999 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:10:25 +0100 (MET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912131935.LAA18041@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > From: Arno Griffioen > > > > OK.. Biggie here is that this machine doesn't have a tape drive, just > > 2 RA92 drives. It used to have a TU81, but it seems to have been junked > > > Congratulations on getting a /94 with RA92 drives! Condolences > on the tape drive being junked. Agree. I'd like to get my hands on a /94 myself... :-) > > No ethernet card either.. (anybody know where to get a DEUNA cheap??) > > In the US there are many places which sell used DEC equipment but > I do not know of any in the Netherlands. If at all possible get > a DELUA insetad - less power hungry and fewer bugs. Less powerhungry, yes. It also takes less space on the Unibus, and is faster. But I wasn't aware that the DEUNA had any more bugs than the DELUA. Please enlight me. (I only use DELUAs myself, but I have one or two DEUNAs lying around). Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA70763 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 03:31:16 +1100 (EST) From bqt at Update.UU.SE Sat Dec 18 02:30:33 1999 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:30:33 +0100 (MET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912142119.NAA06698@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > > > From arno at usn.nl Mon Dec 13 23:28:32 1999 > > this thing. At least the RA92's are quite a bit more 'civilized' than the > > RA82 on my uVAX which is more like a howling banshee.. > > Use less power and are more reliable (also larger capacity I believe) RA82: 622 MB RA92: 1.2GB All with reservations about my memory going bad... :-) > > Guess my first search will be for either an UNIBUS SCSI controller or > > a TK50/TK70 controller as I still have some drives for those.. > > A TK70 controller will run a TK50 drive very nicely _and_ offer > the benefit of the buffer cache (which speeds things up greatly). I > do not know if there was a Unibus TK50 adaptor though. TUK50 was (is) the name of that controller. I've actually played with a VAX-11/750 with a TK50 once upon a time many moons ago. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA73336 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 05:38:00 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Sat Dec 18 04:26:03 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:26:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912171826.KAA04099@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From: Johnny Billquist > RA82: 622 MB > RA92: 1.2GB That sounds a little small. AH, let me go check /etc/disktab on the PDP-11 The RA90 was ~1.2GB: :pc#2376153:oc#0:bc#1024:fc#1024: and the RA92 was closer to 1.4GB: :pc#2940951:oc#0:bc#1024:fc#1024: > > A TK70 controller will run a TK50 drive very nicely _and_ offer > > TUK50 was (is) the name of that controller. I've actually played with a > VAX-11/750 with a TK50 once upon a time many moons ago. Was there a TUK70 - or was the TK70 for the Qbus systems only? Steven Schultz sms at moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA73337 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 05:38:01 +1100 (EST) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Sat Dec 18 04:22:39 1999 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:22:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 Message-ID: <199912171822.KAA04095@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From: Johnny Billquist > Agree. I'd like to get my hands on a /94 myself... :-) An 11/93 would be nice too, Qbus systems use less power and make less noise from what I have seen. > Less powerhungry, yes. It also takes less space on the Unibus, and is > faster. But I wasn't aware that the DEUNA had any more bugs than the > DELUA. Please enlight me. (I only use DELUAs myself, but I have one or two > DEUNAs lying around). I know the DEQNA had firmware problems that could cause the board to lock up under load - perhaps I was confusing the DEQNA and DEUNA. The later Qbus board (DELQA) was much nicer in the same way that the DELUA is better than the DEUNA. Steven Schultz sms at moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA73620 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:10:57 +1100 (EST) From bqt at Update.UU.SE Sat Dec 18 05:10:31 1999 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:10:31 +0100 (MET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912171822.KAA04095@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > > > From: Johnny Billquist > > Agree. I'd like to get my hands on a /94 myself... :-) > > An 11/93 would be nice too, Qbus systems use less power and make less > noise from what I have seen. Well, I'm in love with Unibus systems... I have an 11/84 at home, and of course, there is always Magica, which is an 11/70... :-) (And then we have Knase, which is our 11/70 with 2.11BSD. Unfortunately, both systems are powered off right now because of cooling problems. :-( > > Less powerhungry, yes. It also takes less space on the Unibus, and is > > faster. But I wasn't aware that the DEUNA had any more bugs than the > > DELUA. Please enlight me. (I only use DELUAs myself, but I have one or two > > DEUNAs lying around). > > I know the DEQNA had firmware problems that could cause the board to > lock up under load - perhaps I was confusing the DEQNA and DEUNA. > The later Qbus board (DELQA) was much nicer in the same way that the > DELUA is better than the DEUNA. I don't think the DEUNA has that bug which riddles the DEQNA. Also, the DEUNA/DELUA loads some microcode when I start using them, this is running RSX. That microcode is located on the RSX system. Beats me what it is for, or anything. Worse (parhaps) is that the device driver for the DEUNA/DELUA don't work with any Q-bus models, which means I don't have a driver for Q-bus machines... Anybody know anything more about this? I really don't care to dig around the sources here, and also, I don't have the sources to all components. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA73644 for pups-liszt; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:13:06 +1100 (EST) From bqt at Update.UU.SE Sat Dec 18 05:12:45 1999 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:12:45 +0100 (MET) Subject: Installing UNIX on an 11/94 In-Reply-To: <199912171826.KAA04099@moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > > > From: Johnny Billquist > > RA82: 622 MB > > RA92: 1.2GB > > That sounds a little small. AH, let me go check /etc/disktab on > the PDP-11 > > The RA90 was ~1.2GB: > > :pc#2376153:oc#0:bc#1024:fc#1024: > > and the RA92 was closer to 1.4GB: > > :pc#2940951:oc#0:bc#1024:fc#1024: You got me. :-) > > > A TK70 controller will run a TK50 drive very nicely _and_ offer > > > > TUK50 was (is) the name of that controller. I've actually played with a > > VAX-11/750 with a TK50 once upon a time many moons ago. > > Was there a TUK70 - or was the TK70 for the Qbus systems only? Yes, Q-bus only. When the TK70 came out, I guess DEC had decided to stop development of Unibus peripherials. I very much doubt they sold that many TUK50, or RUX50 controllers. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol