From jss at ou.edu Sat Mar 3 06:50:09 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:50:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long) Message-ID: <983566209.3aa007815112f@email.ou.edu> Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of questions to ask :). First, here is a little about myself and why I'm here. I'm 22 years old. I go to school at the University of Oklahoma, majoring in CS, and work as an embedded programmer. My religion, if one exists, consists of the many tenets and folkloric tales of programming. So here I am, 22; what am I doing asking about PDP-11s and their Unices? Well, I'm hyperinterested in the history of computing, especially that history that constitues the minicomputer era. I guess I arrived at this state by the following path: Birth -> TRS80 -> MSDOS/Windows -> Unix -> Folklore -> Obsession The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11 and learn everything I can about it, lest all the remaining ones be usurped by museums, to forever lie derelict behind glass walls where no one can ever play with them, gain knowledge from them, or truly appreciate them again. I don't want to build an enormous collection -- just one or two that I can keep in working order. My purpose is intellectual exploration. I have to *experience* what computing was like in my favorite era, and this is the only way, since unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier. Finding PDP-11 hardware, while somewhat difficult, is not the prime problem. *What* hardware do I find? I can find out via the Internet the basics of what hardware exists, but the information stops rather short of being complete. I need the following questions answered: * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first choice) system with a TE16 and TM03. What does the tape drive look like? * The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'. Does 'format' in this case mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it some other meaning? What does the TM03 look like? * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question? How is a TE16 different from a TU16? * I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s. How many can be put into a system? I need a RK11-D controller for this, right? * Can V7 fit on 3 to 4 RK05s? * What range of PDP-11 BSD versions will fit comfortably on 3 to 4 RK05s? * Look at the middle rack in the following picture. Are those RK05f drives? http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/kepek/pdp11-70.jpg * From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can offer. Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older black color scheme? (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty. I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :) * What kind of controller would one of the above drives need? * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem 570 panel at some point. How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front panel to put back on it? Whew! I think that's all for the moment. All responses are appreciated. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss at ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA97068 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:05:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From bqt at update.uu.se Sat Mar 3 21:00:58 2001 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:00:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-Reply-To: <983566209.3aa007815112f@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of > introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of > questions to ask :). Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also point out the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11 fanatics, not just the unix types. :-) > * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first > choice) system with a TE16 and TM03. What does the tape drive look like? First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a soldering iron once in a while, and try to get some spare cards. Also, I hope you have a large house, and *lots* of electricity... The TE16 is an upright standing drive with vaccum colons. It's a normal full height 19" cabinet. > * The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'. Does 'format' in this case > mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it > some other meaning? What does the TM03 look like? The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the massbus on one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on the other side. It's a "small" box that resides in the lower part of the TE16 cabinet. You normally won't ever look at it, except when it breakes. > * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or > TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question? How is a > TE16 different from a TU16? They don't differ. > * I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s. How many can be put into a system? I need > a RK11-D controller for this, right? I think each RK11-D can control up to eight drives. > * From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can > offer. Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older > black color scheme? (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty. > I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :) If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives. They fit 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty". However, they *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the floor, and they are *heavy*. In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB. All "newer" drives are the off-white that DEC adopted. > * What kind of controller would one of the above drives need? RA81: UDA-50 RP06: Massbus (RH70 in your case) > * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem > 570 panel at some point. How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front > panel to put back on it? Could be tricky... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA98856 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:10:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From jss at ou.edu Sun Mar 4 03:06:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:06:16 -0600 (CST) Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <983639176.3aa12488adff1@email.ou.edu> > > Hello there! > > Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also > point out the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11 > fanatics, not just the unix types. :-) Thanks for that. > > * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 > > First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a > soldering iron once in a while, and try to get some spare cards. > Also, I hope you have a large house, and *lots* of electricity.. I'm not afraid of a little soldering. My current plan to ready my house for the machine is as follows. First, I have a wood floor that's suspended above the ground by various things in the crawlspace. I'll have to get down there and add some extra bracing where the machine will be. I'll lay a solid slab of strong wood on top of the floor to spread the weight out. Second, I'll have an electrician install the necessary power circuit. My ballpark figures tell me that I need capacity for 8-10kW. My house is small, but big enough for the 11/70. In a year or so I will be building a new house, complete with its own machine room. > The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the > massbus on one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on > the other side. I figured it might me something like that. > If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives. They fit > 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty". However, they > *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the floor, > and they are *heavy*. In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB. Ah, a washing machine. I don't have room for it now (well, not where the machine will be), but I will in the new house. I've found a person that might sell me a RA81 to use until then. > > * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced > > with a Datasystem 570 panel at some point. How hard would it > > be to find an original 11/70 front panel to put back on it? > > Could be tricky... Hm. I'd better start looking now. Thanks for your response. You have been extremely helpful. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss at ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA98938 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:28:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From lars at fwn.rug.nl Sun Mar 4 03:22:10 2001 From: lars at fwn.rug.nl (Lars J. Buitinck) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:22:10 +0100 Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long) References: <983566209.3aa007815112f@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AA12842.6E3EA0E8@fwn.rug.nl> This seems like the perfect opportunity to introduce myself : ) Thank you Jeffrey. Lars Buitinck, 17 years old, student (high school, final year), UNIX fanatic, living in the Netherlands, looking for a reasonable PDP-11 (ie., one that can run 2.11BSD). MrBill (the owner of pdp11.org) knew where I could find an 11/73 and an 11/83 but both had to be shipped all the way from the US, both only had one RL02 disk drive, and only one had a tape drive. So does anybody know where I can find a reasonably modern, moderately sized 11, preferably from NL, DE or BE, with some reasonably large disks (some 50-60 MB minimum, I guess)? A tape drive would be nice... unless I can borrow one? I don't really care about the colour, as long as it works ; ) PS.: FYI, I speak English (obviously) and Dutch (again, obviously), and I understand French and German well enough, but please don't expect me to mail in French or German. "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of > introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of > questions to ask :). ... > The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11 Man, do I know that feeling > unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier. If you think you had bad luck, I was born 35 years too late. ; ) -- If I traveled to the end of the rainbow As Dame Fortune did intend, Murphy would be there to tell me The pot's at the other end. -- Bert Whitney Lars J. Buitinck From jss at ou.edu Mon Mar 5 01:43:54 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:43:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: [pups] Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <983720634.3aa262babe633@email.ou.edu> I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against people giving classic computers in working condition to museums. Instead, I believe that they should donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn things. A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted. He was torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum. I didn't have a lot of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would get him an impressive tax deduction. I did some research about what it takes to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and time-consuming to be a viable option for me. I sent the following argument to him: > While I would love to establish a collection of these machines, > I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean > today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or > to have some pretty decorations in my house. While it would > certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to > get something that I can learn with. I want to *run* these > machines. I want to *explore* these machines. I want to *hack* > on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be > coerced into doing. I want to get as close as I can to the > *experience* of computing in these machines' era. If these > machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will > educate _no_one_. They will sit behind glass walls, no one > ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or > keep them in working order. They are effectively lost. That's > little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel > about that! What do you think about this? (BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss at ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From at258 at osfn.org Mon Mar 5 09:27:31 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 18:27:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Re: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <983720634.3aa262babe633@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: Uhhh... do you really have to ask... Why can't you execute the paper work for a non-profit yourself? In RI, it's $35. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." -Ovid On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear > some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against people giving classic > computers in working condition to museums. Instead, I believe that they should > donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn > things. > > A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted. He was > torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum. I didn't have a lot > of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would > get him an impressive tax deduction. I did some research about what it takes > to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and > time-consuming to be a viable option for me. I sent the following argument to > him: > > > While I would love to establish a collection of these machines, > > I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean > > today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or > > to have some pretty decorations in my house. While it would > > certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to > > get something that I can learn with. I want to *run* these > > machines. I want to *explore* these machines. I want to *hack* > > on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be > > coerced into doing. I want to get as close as I can to the > > *experience* of computing in these machines' era. If these > > machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will > > educate _no_one_. They will sit behind glass walls, no one > > ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or > > keep them in working order. They are effectively lost. That's > > little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel > > about that! > > What do you think about this? > > (BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to) > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss at ou.edu > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 > GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> > W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ > 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07824 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:58:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Mon Mar 5 10:54:19 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:54:19 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] Some more PDP-11 UNIX Geneaology Message-ID: <200103050054.f250sJB23189@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> All, Just received this from Heinz Lycklama, the creator of Mini-UNIX and who worked on the floor below Ken and Dennis. It's some interesting details of some of the offshoots of Research UNIX. ----- Forwarded message from Heinz Lycklama ----- From: Heinz Lycklama To: Warren Toomey Subject: Re: Genealogy of Mini UNIX? Warren, I was checking thru my email and noticed that I never really answered your questions on the history of UNIX. Just noticed your web site with some of the information. I do not have any UNIX source code in my possession - LSX, Mini-UNIX, MERT or SPS [all described in the BSTJ July/August 1978 edition.] However, I can fill in some of the gaps for you. Here they are: LSX, also known as LSI-UNIX was developed for the first microprocessor produced by DEC - the LSI-11. The whole system ran in 20Kbytes of memory [NOT MB] with the OS in the first 8K and the user program swapping in and out of the upper 12K. More memory could be added, but it really ran in this amount of memory. I used one floppy disk (256KB) for the system boot and system programs, and a second floppy disk (256KB) for user programs and data. My motivation for producing this scaled-down UNIX system was for use in the lab for controlling special test and new equipment. It was portable and was used to control a music synthesizer developed by Hal Alles [one of my Bell Labs colleagues.] To get the system to fit in the small memory footprint, I stripped it of all non-essentials. Groups were not supported, and pipes were supported in "user" space. By this I mean I changed the shell to recognize "|" and turn it into "> temp1; < temp1" and then remove the temporary files at the end of the shell command. I worked with Dennis Ritchie to reduce some of the table sizes in the C compiler, and even yacc and lex, so that all of these programs could run under LSX. The LSX system was typically configured to use one system floppy and one user floppy. LSX could even be used to recompile itself - it was self-sustaining. User programs were swapped into memory above 8K bytes. The LSX system was added to within Bell Labs by a number of researchers who had different floppy drivers and/or needed to support different peripherals. The system was produced in the summer of 1974 and found much use within Bell Labs. If only Western Electric [the precursor of Lucent, and licensor of the UNIX system] had found a way to offer binary licenses for the UNIX system back then, the UNIX system would be running on all PC's today rather than DOS/Windows. We may be given a second chance with Linux! Mini-UNIX was developed by myself when a number of people came to me and said that they wanted to be able to use their PDP11/10 computers in the lab to run UNIX programs. These computers had no memory management unit (MMU) and therefore could not run unmodified UNIX kernels of the day. I took on this project during the fall of 1974 while teaching a number of Explorer Scouts about the UNIX system and computing in general in the evening. My starting point was LSX because it had already been modified to run without an MMU. This system ran in 12Kbytes and used 16Kbytes for user programs. I used many of the same tricks to get Mini-UNIX to run on PDP11 computers without an MMU as I used to get LSX to run on the LSI-11 microcomputer. Although I left the support for groups in (as I recall.) After all, I had 4Kbytes more to work with. These systems would support one or more RK05 disks with 2.5Mbytes of disk each. The Mini-UNIX system was licensed to many different Universities and studied and modified by many students and their professors. I've even heard of some who took Mini-UNIX and made modifications to make it work on an LSI-11 microcomputer. The Mini-UNIX system was developed over a period of a few months, making system changes and recompiling the system in the evening while I was also teaching Explorer Scouts about UNIX and computing. The compiles took a long time - so I was able to "kill two birds with one stone" so to speak. The MERT system was designed and implemented by Doug Bayer and myself at Bell Labs, mostly in the time frame from 1972 to 1976, when the PDP11/45 computer was first introduced. It was the first computer that supported kernel, supervisor and user address spaces. We need all three spaces so that we could support multiple computing environments (supervisors) and still support real-time tasks. We concentrated on doing the UNIX system supervisor first but later on we also added support for RSX-11D, DEC's real-time operating system at the time. It was a very large undertaking and took us a number of years to accomplish. There was a need for real-time operating systems in the development parts of Bell Labs and we soon picked up real customers for the MERT system. I remember that during the early years, before we had any customers, we were encouraged by Ken Thompson to continue the work. He also saw the need. The MERT system was eventually used by a number of Bell Labs customers at all of the major Bell Labs locations. It was even used as the basis of a fault-resilient switching system, called duplexing MERT, or DMERT. Later yet, the key real-time features of the MERT system were incorporated into later versions of the main UNIX operating system. SPS, the Satellite Processor System, was developed by Carl Christensen and myself. We developed it to satisfy a need to tie many of our mini- and microcomputers in the lab together, and to be able to use the familiar UNIX system and tools to develop distributed applications for use in the lab. What we did was basically was enable "UNIX programs" to run on mini-computers in the lab as if the programs were developed on run on a full UNIX system. Whenever the program made a "system call", we trapped it and sent the system call number and parameters to a UNIX program running on the host computer. The host computer executed the system call on behalf of the program running in the Satellite Processor and returned the results back to it. This was a great productivity tool for many people developing lab applications at various Bell Labs locations. The system was widely distributed within the Bell System. Heinz Lycklama ----- End of forwarded message from Heinz Lycklama ----- Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12547 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 03:56:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From greg at ciswired.com Tue Mar 6 02:52:16 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:52:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Parts sources, etc. Message-ID: Hello all, Some background: I recently acquired a lot of PDP-11 equipment at an auction which I will be refurbishing it and adding it to my computer museum. Basically what I got was the following: 1 gutted 11/44 with a full CPU set, 1 operating 11/44, 1 operating 11/83, several BA11 expansion boxes, 3 RA81 disks, 3 RL02 disks, etc. My first plan is to build a big 11/44 system running 2.11BSD using an RL02 for the root, an RA81 for /usr, swap, and a bootable spare root, and another RA81 for a home file system. Questions: I need sources for the following, can anyone suggest good starting points? 1. Unit select plugs for the RL02s. All the plugs I have are "0", I'd like to be able to use more than one RL02 on the system if need be. 2. Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s. I assume they're the same lamp for both drives. These are the lamps that go behind the front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write Protect/etc.) I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG. A search on Goodle for this pulls up nothing. 3. New, or good substitutes, for the coarse air filters used behind the 11/44 front panel as well as behind the RA81 front panels. The ones that I have are literally crumbling apart. 4. Sources for the rubber/metal motor-mount bushings used on the RA81 drive motors. Many of mine have torn. 5. Sources for drive belts for the RL02s/RA81s 6. Sources for fine filters (cartridges) used on the RL02s. 7. Sources for RL02 disk packs (I have only 2 packs for the three drives!) The working 11/44 I got is an interesting beast. It appears to have been supplemented with at least one, possibly two, BA11 expansion boxes. The last BA11 looks like it further fed into a QBUS expansion box via a DW11-B (M9403 - not on the module list) UNIBUS->QBUS converter. The thing was loaded. Thanks, greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 6 07:22:59 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:22:59 GMT Subject: [pups] Parts sources, etc. In-Reply-To: "Gregory R. Travis" "[pups] Parts sources, etc." (Mar 5, 11:52) References: Message-ID: <10103052122.ZM22676@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 11:52, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > I need sources for the following, can anyone suggest good starting points? > > 1. Unit select plugs for the RL02s. All the plugs I have are "0", > I'd like to be able to use more than one RL02 on the system if need be. I had a similar problem -- several RL02s but the plugs were for units 0 and 1 ("And sometimes we didn't even have ones. I wrote an entire database using only zeros." "You had zeros? We had to use the letter 'O'.") The switches are standard Honeywell AML series, so you might be able to get plugs for them frm a Honeywell supplier -- but don't hold your breath. Each plug has a finger on each side (and a "key" on top). The upper and lower edge of each finger activates (or not) a contact in the housing. I used matchsticks to work out what lengths were required before I saw real plugs. Of course, I wouldn't recommend using matchsticks except in an emergency but you could do what I did, and make your own plugs. I made mine from thin Perspex (Lucite), each from five pieces glued together to make a box. The "code" is: Unit upper left lower left upper right lower right 0 short short short long 1 short short long* long 2 long long short long 3 long long long* long The ones I've marked "long*" go the full length of the finger, with just a small bevel to make insertion easier. > 2. Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s. I assume they're the > same lamp for both drives. These are the lamps that go behind the > front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write Protect/etc.) > I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG. A search on Goodle > for this pulls up nothing. They're standard T1 1/2 wedge-base bulbs (5mm dia x 18mm long), but to be authentic you should use 14V bulbs rather than the more common 12V ones. 12V ones will burn out relatively quickly. > 3. New, or good substitutes, for the coarse air filters used behind > the 11/44 front panel as well as behind the RA81 front panels. The > ones that I have are literally crumbling apart. The best thing I've found is the synthetic open-weave fibrous mat used in domestic cooker hoods and the like. I get mine from the local hardware shop; it's very cheap. It comes in at least two thicknesses; if the stuff you find is too thick, you can peel it apart as if it were layered. Can't help with the rest, I'm afraid. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13884 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:00:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Mar 6 07:48:34 2001 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:48:34 +0100 Subject: [pups] DEC ULTRIX-11 V3.1 bin/src install kit Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32D19@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> All, As a part of my efforts to create an enhanced version of the Ultrix-11 Unix distribution that can be used on PDP-11's, I started out with creating a kit that has all the parts and which can be used to create a bootable installation tape from which you can install it on a machine. I am uploading "ultrix11-v3.1-kit.tar.gz" to PUPS as we speak. A README file is included, as contains the following: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - DEC ULTRX-11 V3.1 Master Distribution Kit This directory contains the files needed to build a complete installation kit of version 3.1 of the ULTRIX-11 Unix system for the DEC PDP-11. Version 3.1 was also the final release; no more development was done after, as UEG shifted its focus to the new VAX systems. Ultrix effectively was ported to the VAX. and called Ultrix-32. Later releases were called either Ultrix/VAX or Ultrix/RISC, depending on which DEC platform it was for. This distribution contains files from both the V3.1 binary kit (dug up by Wilko Bulte), the V3.1 source kit from Steven Schultz, and some other tools and files grabbed from anywhere. The kit is basically a regeneratable V3.1 binary boot kit, with the official SRCKIT added to it (as tape file 35). The top-level "build" script does what it says.. it builds the tape so you can start it up and go to get some sleep :) To get the ball rolling, check the value of the TAPE variable at the top of the "build" script. It is set to what MY tape device (TK50 on TQK50 controller) under Ultrix-11 V3.1 is, so you may have to change it. Then, type ./build and watch things go. After about two hours of tape activity, you should be woken up by two BEEPs telling you that it is all done. Unload the tape and you're all set. Extreme thanks go to Wilko and Steven for digging up this stuff; to Bill Gunshannon, Ed "The Wanderer", Kees Stravers and Warren Toomey for their support while I was fighting hardware problems and debug weird software issues. Thanks guys!! If you run into problems, drop me a note! Have fun ! Fred N. van Kempen, March 5th, 2001 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Upcoming release of this kit will contain, amongst other things: - VTserver 2.0 support (you can install the tape off a virtual tape server!!) - TDF 1.0 (Tape Dump Format) file support for archiving tape dumps - My TCP/IP "fromto" network pipe program - C-Kermit, compress/uncompress - more documentation - more network stuff - my RX50 boot/rescue diskette set (2 RX50's.. neat!) Watch this space for more.... Warren: expect about 38MB of stuff to drop into your mailbox tonight... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen Fred.van.Kempen at MicroWalt.NL Microsoft MCSE+I/MCSE/MCSD Compaq ASE/ACT UNIX Systems Programmer Cisco ACRC/CCDA/CCNA/SupportPro InterNetworking en Network Security Consultant MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Korte Heul 95, 1403 ND BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14147 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:46:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com Tue Mar 6 08:42:19 2001 From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:42:19 -0500 Subject: [pups] Parts sources, etc. Message-ID: <010305174219.250002bc@trailing-edge.com> > 2. Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s. I assume they're the > same lamp for both drives. These are the lamps that go behind the > front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write Protect/etc.) > I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG. A search on Goodle > for this pulls up nothing. RL02's and RA81's use different bulbs; the #73 is for the RL02, and is 14V. The #86 is for the RA8n, and is 6.30V. You can put the #86 in a RL02, and while it will be real bright, the lifetime will be measured in hours. Put the #73 in a RA8n and it will be dim, but at least it'll last a while :-). These bulbs are readily available in the US from most "old-line" electronics distributors. Mail order places that stock them are Newark and Mouser; the relevant Newark URL's are http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=50N8071 and http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=50N8068 If you're going to be doing this a lot, you ought to find yourself a bulb puller. Getting those bulbs in and out of recessed sockets is a whole lot easier with such a tool! Tim. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17861 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:02:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From robin.birch at postoffice.co.uk Tue Mar 6 21:46:08 2001 From: robin.birch at postoffice.co.uk (robin.birch at postoffice.co.uk) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:46:08 +0000 Subject: [pups] Half Inch Tape Message-ID: <00256A07.00419C8F.00@postoffice.co.uk> Dear All, I am after some reels of 0.5 inch tape and some spare write protect rings in the UK. Can anyone help? Regards Robin From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 7 04:37:20 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:37:20 GMT Subject: [pups] Half Inch Tape In-Reply-To: robin.birch@postoffice.co.uk "[pups] Half Inch Tape" (Mar 6, 11:46) References: <00256A07.00419C8F.00@postoffice.co.uk> Message-ID: <10103061837.ZM23410@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 6, 11:46, robin.birch at postoffice.co.uk wrote: > > > Dear All, > I am after some reels of 0.5 inch tape and some spare write protect rings in the > UK. Can anyone help? I may have one or two spare reels, and I certainly have quite a few spare write rings. How many are you looking for? Does it matter if they're in Wright-line seals, canisters, or autoload collars? Contact me off-list to give me your address. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21660 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:11:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From greg at ciswired.com Wed Mar 7 11:07:00 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system Message-ID: MANY thanks to all who responded to my questions regarding the PDP-11 equipment I recently acquired. I believe that I am well on my way to being able to build a fairly substantial operating 11/44 museum piece. I was able to open up the three RA81s and inspect them. Luckily their heads had all been locked in place. Unfortunately, the belt release on all were still set in "tension." Hopefully this will be a minor issue. I powered up the RA81s, all power up and start spinning the platters. I have not allowed any of them to rotate fast enough to load the heads though - I want to do a good cleaning first and get them situated in their cabinets. The three RL02s also all accept power and come on. However, they all illuminate their fault light when power is applied. I cannot remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their controller - anyone? Finally, I have two 1MB Standard Memories memory boards, a 256K Standard Memories board, 2 DEC 256K memory boards, 1 DEC 1MB memory board, and 1 512K National Semiconductor memory board (see below). All these are 11/44 memories. Does anyone have CSR/etc. DIP switch settings for the Standard Memories and/or Nat. Semi boards? I can't find anything on the 'net and I have no other documentation. Thanks! greg p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB board, but what about the extra chips? Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21918 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:58:04 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Wed Mar 7 11:53:21 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:53:21 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] Fred's Ultrix-11 now in the UNIX Archive Message-ID: <200103070153.f271rL837045@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In article <7263E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC30A8A9F at mwnt4.microwalt.nl>, "Fred N. van Kempen" writes: > Here is a quick snippet I just wrote up while loading my distribution on > a test system. This file will be cleaned up, > enriched and so on and included in the next release. > Fred The UNIX Archive now has Fred's distributions and his setup.txt in the PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Fred-Ultrix3 directory: total 17328 -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 892 Mar 7 01:30 README.ult11-3.0 -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 1663 Mar 6 12:36 README.ult11-3.1 -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 25497 Mar 7 12:53 setup-3.1.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 6680997 Mar 7 06:33 ult11-3.0-kit.tar.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 10988112 Mar 7 06:52 ult11-3.1-kit.tar.gz http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/archive_access.html Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23916 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:59:37 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Mar 7 18:54:48 2001 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:54:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > The three RL02s also all accept power and come on. However, they > all illuminate their fault light when power is applied. I cannot > remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their > controller - anyone? Yes, they will turn on the fault light if not connected to a controller. > p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to > fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB > board, but what about the extra chips? ECC? Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23981 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:07:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 7 18:51:42 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:51:42 GMT Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system In-Reply-To: "Gregory R. Travis" "[pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system" (Mar 6, 20:07) References: Message-ID: <10103070851.ZM23908@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 6, 20:07, Gregory R. Travis wrote: The three RL02s also all accept power and come on. However, they > all illuminate their fault light when power is applied. I cannot > remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their > controller - anyone? Yes, that's what happens if either the terminator or the controller is not connected. > p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to > fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB > board, but what about the extra chips? Is it ECC memory? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA25238 for pups-liszt; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 00:04:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From greg at ciswired.com Wed Mar 7 22:59:46 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:59:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32D32@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Hi, > > > p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of > > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another > > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter > > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to > > fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB > > board, but what about the extra chips? > > FastECC or parity, most likely... usually two or three bits per > word... 256K x 18. Thought about that too but the math doesn't work. 40+64 chips = 104 chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits. 6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38 greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Mar 8 04:36:02 2001 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:36:02 +0100 Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32D39@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Greg, > Thought about that too but the math doesn't work. 40+64 chips = 104 > chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits. > > 6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38 Right... 12 bits of ECC seems a bit much. Dunno what that stuff is about... weird! ;) Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27971 for pups-liszt; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:20:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Thu Mar 8 07:15:48 2001 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:15:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system Message-ID: <200103072115.NAA15151@chiton.ucsd.edu> > Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0500 (EST) > From: "Gregory R. Travis" > To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system > > > p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to > fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB > board, but what about the extra chips? Nat.Semi. used to make ECC memory boards for the PDP11. I had one once, it looks like you have one now. My arithmetic says 5 extra bits per 8-bit byte makes for single-error correcting, dual-error detecting ECC on the byte level. Vaxes do it with 39 bits per 32-bit word, Alphas do it with 72 bits per 64-bit word. Economy of scale. As I remember, you could just ignore the ECC and it would work like a standard parity memory board, except that it very rarely had any parity errors. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein at ucsd.edu Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32608 for pups-liszt; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:55:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 8 08:10:25 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 22:10:25 GMT Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system In-Reply-To: "Gregory R. Travis" "RE: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system" (Mar 7, 7:59) References: Message-ID: <10103072210.ZM24280@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 7, 7:59, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > Thought about that too but the math doesn't work. 40+64 chips = 104 > chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits. > > 6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38 It divides by 13, though (64K x 13 x 8, so the prime factors are 2 and 13). Unlikely as it sounds, could this be for a 12-bit word machine? 13 is not only 12+1, it's 8+5. 5 is a common number of bits for ECC (though not, I admit, for 8-bit words! Usually it's 8+3, 16+5, or 16+6). It also strikes me as odd that a NatSemi board should have TI chips on it. NatSemi made their own RAM, and Texas made their own PDP-11 and Vax memory boards. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From iking at killthewabbit.org Sun Mar 11 18:28:33 2001 From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 00:28:33 -0800 Subject: [pups] Building v6 on a PDP-11/34 Message-ID: <000e01c0aa05$42c37cc0$450010ac@dawabbit> I'd been having a weird problem trying to compile mkconf.c, as a first step toward rebuilding 6th Ed, and someone suggested that it might be a memory problem. I dug out the XXDP disks I have, ran some diagnostics, and discovered that my illusions about my memory were ill-founded. :-) Fortunately, I had another MOS memory card, which I configured and installed. Now cc completes with no problems, and I rebuilt the system! It was weird that the system seemed to run fine, but a defect somewhere in the second 64k was causing a failure in cc. Of course, there's always a challenge. Now I'm trying to build/install a filesystem on my big Plessey DD-11/80 drives; they seem something like an RP04, and use the CDC 9877 diskpacks, if anyone's heard of them. I built my kernel using the hp driver, and that doesn't seem to work with it. -- Ian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jss at ou.edu Sun Mar 11 23:55:47 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:55:47 -0600 (CST) Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984318947.3aab83e340d11@email.ou.edu> > > * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a > > TU10 or TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the > > question? How is a TE16 different from a TU16? > > They don't differ. Would v6 support a MASSBUS TE16/TM03 combination then? If not, what would I need for the TE16 to get it to work with v6? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss at ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA58213 for pups-liszt; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:45:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Mar 12 00:40:05 2001 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:40:05 +0100 (CET) Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-Reply-To: <984318947.3aab83e340d11@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a > > > TU10 or TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the > > > question? How is a TE16 different from a TU16? > > > > They don't differ. > > Would v6 support a MASSBUS TE16/TM03 combination then? If not, what would > I need for the TE16 to get it to work with v6? If it supports the TU16 it also supports the TE16. I can't even remmeber if there were any physical differences between the two. The TM03 is the same. For all purposes, when you read TU16, think TE16/TE16 and vice versa. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Mar 13 14:19:17 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:19:17 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] c68 compiler for PDP-11? Message-ID: <200103130419.f2D4JH369670@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Before I dive in and attempt this, has anybody ported the c68 C compiler to the PDP-11 family? http://www.itimpi.freeserve.co.uk/compsrc.htm Cheers, Warren From greg at ciswired.com Thu Mar 15 00:28:41 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller In-Reply-To: <200103130419.f2D4JH369670@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: I've got an AVIV TFC-825 UNIBUS controller on my 11/44. I'm virtually certain it emulates a TS11. It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives. It has two cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2. I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83. Works fine. Now I'd like to use the drive to bootstrap the 11/44. The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons. Sure enough, the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful world, eh?) However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin! Anyone have any insight into what's going on here? Isn't a Pertec interface a Pertec interface? Or is the DigiData using some kind of proprietary (to DigiData) interface? thanks, greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA82497 for pups-liszt; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:58:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Thu Mar 15 02:52:58 2001 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:52:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller Message-ID: <200103141652.IAA11048@chiton.ucsd.edu> > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST) > From: "Gregory R. Travis" > To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller > > It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives. It has two > cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2. > > I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a > DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83. Works fine. Now I'd like to use > the drive to bootstrap the 11/44. > > The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons. Sure enough, > the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful > world, eh?) > However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin! Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively? > Anyone have any insight into what's going on here? Isn't a Pertec > interface a Pertec interface? Or is the DigiData using some kind of > proprietary (to DigiData) interface? For what it's worth, there were two distinctly different "Pertec" interfaces. They might be called Early Pertec and Late Pertec. For Early Pertec, the eventual cable breakout to the drives went to three connectors, Read data, Write data, and Control. Possibly the AVIV controller was meant to be used with a custom cable set to match a "three-connector" drive. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein at ucsd.edu Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA82533 for pups-liszt; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 04:03:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Thu Mar 15 02:58:28 2001 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:58:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller Message-ID: <200103141658.IAA11108@chiton.ucsd.edu> > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST) > From: "Gregory R. Travis" > To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller > > I've got an AVIV TFC-825 UNIBUS controller on my 11/44. I'm virtually certain > it emulates a TS11. > > It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives. It has two > cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2. > > I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a > DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83. Works fine. Now I'd like to use > the drive to bootstrap the 11/44. > > The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons. Sure enough, > the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful > world, eh?) > > However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin! Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively? Most of the connecting cables for tape drives used twisted-pair ribbon cable. > Anyone have any insight into what's going on here? Isn't a Pertec > interface a Pertec interface? Or is the DigiData using some kind of > proprietary (to DigiData) interface? For what it's worth, there were two "standard" Pertec interfaces. I think of them as Early Pertec and Late Pertec. Late Pertec is the two 50-pin cables. Early Pertec connected to the drive with three cables, Read data, Write data, and Control. Usually there was a custom cable set that broke out to three cables from the connectors on the controller. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein at ucsd.edu Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA83014 for pups-liszt; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 05:19:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From greg at ciswired.com Thu Mar 15 04:14:39 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:14:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller In-Reply-To: <200103141652.IAA11048@chiton.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST) > > From: "Gregory R. Travis" > > To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller > > > > It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives. It has two > > cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2. > > > > I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a > > DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83. Works fine. Now I'd like to use > > the drive to bootstrap the 11/44. > > > > The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons. Sure enough, > > the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful > > world, eh?) > > However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin! > > Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively? You're absolutely right. I just read the pin #s off the boards next to the connector. They printed 49 and 59 but, of course, there's the other row of pins. > For what it's worth, there were two distinctly different "Pertec" > interfaces. They might be called Early Pertec and Late Pertec. > For Early Pertec, the eventual cable breakout to the drives went > to three connectors, Read data, Write data, and Control. Possibly > the AVIV controller was meant to be used with a custom cable set > to match a "three-connector" drive. I >THINK< I've got that covered. The "early pertec", as I recall, are also referred to as unformatted and consist, as you say, of three cables. I've got a Western Digital UNIBUS TM11 controller that uses three cables. The later pertec are referred to as formatted and consist of just two cables. My DigiData controllers use just two cables to my DigiData drive. Now this AVIV controller has TWO connectors along its top. That's for sure. But the connectors have each got more pins than the DigiData controllers do. As you say, I guess it's possible that the AVIV is actually an unformatted controller that takes two "large" cables/connectors and breaks them out later into three smaller cables/connectors. But that would truly suck. greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From greg at ciswired.com Sat Mar 17 05:37:53 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:37:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling? Here's what I have: RA81 disk drive with two big black cables coming out of it, one for each port (A/B). The cables terminate at the drive on one end and at a small metal box on the other end. The small metal box has two sockets on it (denoted with "*" in the picture below): Small metal box / +----------+ "A" cable / | RA81 |------------[]* | Drive |------------[]* +----------+ "B" cable UDA50 controller in 11/44 with four sets of orange cables coming out of it and terminating in a four-port socket set (denoted "*" in picture below) in a larger metal box at the back of the cabinet: Larger metal box / / *[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- What I have tried: I unscrewed the black cables from the small metal box and plugged one of them directly into one of the ports on the larger metal box: +----------+ "A" cable | RA81 |----------------| | Drive |----------[]* | +----------+ "B" cable | / Larger metal box / / | / |-*[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- That didn't work (I tried it with two different drives and cable sets). The operating system (2.11BSD) sees the UDA50 but does not see the drive (which is spun up and "ready"). I did a little searching on the internet and found a couple of cryptic discussions. What I surmised from the discussions was that you cannot directly connect the drive cable to the bulkhead box on the computer cabinet. It seems you need a third cable to act as an intermediary as such: Small metal box / +----------+ "A" cable / | RA81 |----------[]*---| | Drive |----------[]* | <--- New THIRD ("external?") cable +----------+ "B" cable | / Larger metal box / / | / |-*[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- Is that right? If so, where can I find one of these external cables and/or is it possible to manufacture one from a bit of ribbon cable an a couple of commonly available plugs? The sockets denoted by "*" appear to be AMD bastardizations of common PC board plugs like the ones one would find connecting a console port plug. Thanks! greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Mar 19 20:01:30 2001 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:01:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling? Here's > what I have: You got it right by the end. You need a third external cable. The SDI-cables are always crossed, which means you always need an odd number of cables. Where to get the cables? COMPAQ if you can pay for them. Other sites that are throwing out their stuff if you definitely don't want to pay. Some dealer in used equipment is a third alternative. Ask anywhere where you might expect to find SDI disks. I wouldn't try to build that cable... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA99856 for pups-liszt; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 04:01:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Mar 20 02:48:57 2001 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:48:57 +0100 Subject: [pups] Update on Ultrix-11 V3.1 progress Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> All, This was a private message to Bill Gunshannon (my oh-so-evil partner in Ultrix crime) but it occurred to me that it might actually be of interest to some of you, so.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Update. I have done some work on the hardware here (mostly: getting the VS2000 back up, so I could re-format all RDxx drives I have here) and ended up with getting some more workable disks. The 11/83 now has an internal RD54 (/user1: 145MB :) and external TL50 plus external RD53. I did a full tape load on it, and now have a new "original" Ultrix-11 system. I already have about 5 RX50 diskettes full of stuff I added to the system- will all be in the V3.1(2) release. More important, I have started work on the Ultrix-11 source tree. I want to be able to re-generate the _entire_ system from scratch (sources), so I can optionally do it on a VAX or Alpha with GCC-plus-PDP11 backend. This is taking some time... the whole system _assumes_ many things about the fact that it is probably Ultrix-11 itself. I now run with a /usr that is fully RO (mounted RO), and it is amazing to see how often I get warnings and erros on that fact while compiling the sources :) So, basically, I am relativizing the source tree so that it is self-containing, can live anywhere in the file tree (/user1/srckit in my case) and that it moves stuff to a BINKIT (/user1/binkit in my case) tree when it is done, rather than overwriting system files. To be continued... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- And an update to that: seems to work now... system is recompiling itself as we speak/type. Once that works, this get very easy for me :) I'll post some of the README files I keep updated in the next message here... Cheers, Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00305 for pups-liszt; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 05:10:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkb at freebie.demon.nl Tue Mar 20 04:07:19 2001 From: wkb at freebie.demon.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:07:19 +0100 Subject: [pups] Update on Ultrix-11 V3.1 progress In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>; from Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl on Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:48:57PM +0100 References: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20010319190719.A1142@freebie.demon.nl> On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:48:57PM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Update. > I have done some work on the hardware here (mostly: getting the VS2000 > back up, so I could re-format all RDxx drives I have here) and ended up > with getting some more workable disks. The 11/83 now has an internal > RD54 (/user1: 145MB :) and external TL50 plus external RD53. Good, I guess the drive worked then? Wilko -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands email: wilko at freebsd.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte http://www.freebsd.org http://www.nlfug.nl From jss at ou.edu Tue Mar 20 17:30:38 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:30:38 -0600 Subject: [pups] Cabinet Questions Message-ID: <041601c0b10f$a919a5b0$0a01a8c0@station1> Many thanks to those of you who have answered my previous questions. I have obtained the 1976 peripherals manual, and have read just enough to bring up the next set of questions. This round is about cabineting. In the peripherals manual, the H960 cabinet comes in two models: the -C and the -D. The -D model has a sliding drawer in the lower half of the cabinet that provides space for 9 "system units". What are these "system units"? How big are they? What goes there? When do you need the -D model? Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/70 system with a TE16/TM03 (in its own cabinet, I guess), a TU56/TC11, a paper tape reader/punch (PC11?), 3 or 4 RK05s, and 1 or 2 RP04s. What set of cabinets do I need for this system? Assume the CPU has the SETASI memory upgrades and not core. Una vez mas... Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/40 system with the same peripherals as above minus the RP04s and with a TU10/TM11 as the 9-track. What kind of cabineting do I need here? Assume the CPU has MOS memory and not core. I've got guesses, but I'd like to keep them private to save myself the embarassment. :-) Finally, how much weight can a H960 support? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss at ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" -- Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" -- Adolf Hitler Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28053 for pups-liszt; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:02:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From jss at ou.edu Tue Mar 20 19:01:35 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 03:01:35 -0600 Subject: [pups] PDP-11/70 Front Panel Message-ID: <003501c0b11c$5ddae0c0$0a01a8c0@station1> I will be picking up a PDP-11/70 in a few weeks, but it needs a front panel. If anybody has an extra, please e-mail me. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss at ou.edu From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Wed Mar 21 06:36:22 2001 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:36:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] Cabinet Questions Message-ID: <200103202036.MAA04870@chiton.ucsd.edu> > From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" > To: "PUPS Mailing List" > Subject: [pups] Cabinet Questions > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:30:38 -0600 > > In the peripherals manual, the H960 cabinet comes in two models: the -C and > the -D. The -D model has a sliding drawer in the lower half of the cabinet > that provides space for 9 "system units". What are these "system units"? > How big are they? What goes there? When do you need the -D model? A system unit (SU) was the fundamental hardware building block of an 11/20 and many subsequent PDP's. It was a frame 16.5 inches by 2.25 inches that held 3 blocks of dual card sockets. Each socket block was nominally 5.25 inches by 2.00 inches and could hold four "dual" cards spaced at 0.5-inch intervals. Thus the whole SU could hold four "quad" cards plus two "dual" Unibus connectors in its four rows by six sockets. Later production included a double-wide system unit that could hold nine cards. Typical things that came built into one SU include 4kW (8kB) of core memory and RK05 disk controllers. There were also SU's that were pre-wired to hold four Small Peripheral Controllers (SPC's). Typical SPC's included single-line serial interfaces, and line-printer controllers. Think of the H906-D as an 11/40 or 11/45 without any backplane or cards. > Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/70 system with a TE16/TM03 (in its > own cabinet, I guess), a TU56/TC11, a paper tape reader/punch (PC11?), 3 or > 4 RK05s, and 1 or 2 RP04s. What set of cabinets do I need for this system? > Assume the CPU has the SETASI memory upgrades and not core. > > Una vez mas... Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/40 system with the > same peripherals as above minus the RP04s and with a TU10/TM11 as the > 9-track. What kind of cabineting do I need here? Assume the CPU has MOS > memory and not core. I think you could put that system into two H960 racks. Figure 1/2 of a rack for the 11/40, 1/3 of a rack for the TU10. RK05, PC11, TU56 each take up 1/6 of an H960. With MOS memory you should have plenty of room in the 11/40 frame itself for the necessary one-SU controllers for RK05, TU56. Especially if you take out the 2-SU frame that originally held the core memory. I'm not sure where you put the TM11, I never actually had a real one, just emulated controllers that fit in one SU. > Finally, how much weight can a H960 support? Probably 500 or 600 pounds. If you can, look for the older H960's with welded frames rather than pop rivets. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein at ucsd.edu From greg at ciswired.com Fri Mar 23 05:37:26 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:37:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Looking for some common switch settings... Message-ID: Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44 memory boards? I have a collection of third-party boards (nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on them. I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743) boards (of which I also have a few but no docos). I'm also looking for DZ11 (M7819) IRQ/CSR switch settings. Thanks! greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA51969 for pups-liszt; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:15:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From kbd at ndx.net Fri Mar 23 17:08:43 2001 From: kbd at ndx.net (kbd) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:08:43 -0800 Subject: [pups] 211 install questions/probs In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: Has anyone been able to create and install a tape made from the: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/ directory? I've built the tape as described in the readme file and went back can checked it with a hexdump and it appears correct. Tried booting with the sputnik and E11 sims with no luck: PDP-11 simulator V2.3d sim> set cpu 1m sim> at tm0 c:\211.tape sim> b tm0 000002 (HALT) sim> I've been able to boot other tape images with no problem. Any ideas would be very appreciated. Kirk ps - A dump of the boot tape FTP'd or Email'd would be very-very appreciated. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA52402 for pups-liszt; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:50:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk Fri Mar 23 18:42:08 2001 From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:42:08 -0000 Subject: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1 Message-ID: I am using an 11/83 with an Emulex UC07 Qbus-SCSI card. At present I have a Seagate ST4767N disk attached. The emulex card emulating an MSCP drive I believe. I am sure I could also find a higher capacity drive without too much effort. Which disk should I tell the Ultrix installation I have to get the best from my setup. I made an 'educated' guess of RA81 for the moment, and that works. I could physically attach a drive with a much higher capacity than DEC ever envisaged, but which drive do I 'pretend' I am using. Many thanks Kevin Murrell Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA52408 for pups-liszt; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:50:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Fri Mar 23 18:44:24 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:44:24 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] 211 install questions/probs In-Reply-To: from kbd at "Mar 22, 2001 11:08:43 pm" Message-ID: <200103230844.f2N8iPV18979@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In article by kbd: [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > Has anyone been able to create and install a tape made from the: > > ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/ > > PDP-11 simulator V2.3d > sim> set cpu 1m > sim> at tm0 c:\211.tape > sim> b tm0 > 000002 (HALT) > sim> > > I've been able to boot other tape images with no problem. Any ideas > would be very appreciated. > Kirk Did you use makesimtape to create the tape image? If not, that's probably the problem. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA54074 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:46:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From jp at spektr.eu.org Sat Mar 24 00:34:02 2001 From: jp at spektr.eu.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen_Pehrson?=) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:34:02 +0100 (CET) Subject: [pups] Looking for some common switch settings... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44 > memory boards? I have a collection of third-party boards > (nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on > them. > > I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743) > boards (of which I also have a few but no docos). Couldn't find the manual for the M8743, but I managed to dig up the manual for the M8722, MS11-M. Let me know if you want the settings for this board instead. > I'm also looking for DZ11 (M7819) IRQ/CSR switch settings. I looked really hard on our internal network for an electronic copy of this manual but I couldn't find it so I'll try to make an ACSII drawing of it.. [From Communications Options Minireference Manual, EK-CMIV2-RM-005] -------------------------------- | W1 o-o _ | | | / | | || | | ____ J1 || | | |____| ___ |_\ | | E81 ____ |___| | | |____| E11 | | E52  | | | |___||_____||_____||____||______| Switch pack E11: [Use 1-6 on the switch pack to set the vector] S7 S6 S5 S4 S3 S2 Vector address off off 300 off off off 310 off off off 320 off off off off 330 off off off 340 off off off off 350 off off off off 360 off off off off off 370 off 400 --- off off 500 --- off off 600 --- off off off 700 Note: Switch OFF produces logical "one" on the Unibus . W1: Normally in. Out disables master clk for factory testing. [W1: Jumper just above switch pack E72] E81 (Switch pack to the left of the card, device address selection): S10 S9 S8 S7 S6 S5 S4 S3 S2 S1 Device address on 760010 on 760020 on on 760030 on 760040 on on 760050 on on 760060 on on on 760070 on 760100 -- on 760200 -- on on 760300 -- on 760400 -- on on 760500 -- on on 760600 -- on on on 760700 -- on 761000 -- on 762000 -- on on 763000 -- on 764000 The DZ11 resides in floating address space o Device address ranks 8 o Vector address ranks 27 -- Jörgen Pehrson jp at spektr.eu.org http://spektr.eu.org/~jp/ ----------------------------------------------------------- "i must say the linux community is a lot nicer than the unix community. a negative comment on unix would warrent death threats. with linux, it is like stirring up a nest of butterflies." -- Ken Thompson. 1999 Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA54401 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 02:20:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From greg at ciswired.com Sat Mar 24 01:14:57 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:14:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Looking for some common switch settings... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, [iso-8859-1] J�rgen Pehrson wrote: > On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > > > Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44 > > memory boards? I have a collection of third-party boards > > (nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on > > them. > > > > I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743) > > boards (of which I also have a few but no docos). > > Couldn't find the manual for the M8743, but I managed to dig up the manual > for the M8722, MS11-M. Let me know if you want the settings for this > board instead. Yeah, if you could. Haven't heard anything from anyone else on the M8743. Thanks. greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg at ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA57646 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 05:31:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From kbd at ndx.net Sat Mar 24 04:22:08 2001 From: kbd at ndx.net (kbd) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:22:08 -0800 Subject: [pups] 211 install questions/probs In-Reply-To: <200103230844.f2N8iPV18979@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: >In article by kbd: >> Has anyone been able to create and install a tape made from the: >> >> ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/ >> >Did you use makesimtape to create the tape image? If not, that's >probably the problem. Thanks for the pointer Warren. For the record, makesimtape can be found here: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Trees/2.11BSD/usr/src/sys/pdpstand/makesi mtape.c Kirk From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Mar 24 07:27:01 2001 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 22:27:01 +0100 Subject: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A54@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Kevin, > I am using an 11/83 with an Emulex UC07 Qbus-SCSI card. At present I have a > Seagate ST4767N disk attached. The emulex card emulating an MSCP drive I > believe. Nice, I have one too (an UC08, which is just a dual-port version of the '7). > I am sure I could also find a higher capacity drive without > too much effort. Yup.. come to Holland, attend one of the 6-weekly "dump" shows, and find yourself loaded with 1 and 2GB drives for a couple of bucks... > Which disk should I tell the Ultrix installation I have to get the best from > my setup. I made an 'educated' guess of RA81 for the moment, and that > works. Ultrix will think it is an RA81, most likely. The controller will be seen as either an RQDX3 (MFM QBUS) or an UDA50 (MFM Unibus). Never tried that, 'cos the controller is still on my "todo shelf". Drives attached to either will report as RAxx'es... > I could physically attach a drive with a much higher capacity > than DEC ever envisaged, but which drive do I 'pretend' I am using. I have a kernel with "RA99" compiled in. That is a test for my experimental support for Ultrix-32-like "partition tables" (/etc/chpt et al). Works OK so far... Anyway. Uhm, your drive most probably should work fine when referred to as an RA81 on an RQDX or similar.. UDA50 comes to mind. Cheers, Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA58983 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 09:49:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From bqt at update.uu.se Sat Mar 24 08:43:20 2001 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:43:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1 In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A54@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Kevin, > > > Which disk should I tell the Ultrix installation I have to get the best > from > > my setup. I made an 'educated' guess of RA81 for the moment, and that > > works. > Ultrix will think it is an RA81, most likely. The controller will be seen > as > either an RQDX3 (MFM QBUS) or an UDA50 (MFM Unibus). Never tried that, 'cos > the > controller is still on my "todo shelf". Drives attached to either will > report > as RAxx'es... Actually, the UDA-50 isn't MFM, it's SDI. The QBUS equivalent is the KDA-50. There is no MFM controller for Unibus. That is, no equivalent of the RQDXn exists for Unibus. Disks on the RQDXn reports as RDxx or RXxx, while disks on the [KU]DA-50 reports as RAxx (from a hardware point of view). They're both MSCP controllers though. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA59471 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 11:29:20 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Mar 24 10:16:13 2001 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:16:13 +0100 Subject: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A55@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Johnny, > Actually, the UDA-50 isn't MFM, it's SDI. The QBUS equivalent is the > KDA-50. Ahhh, i knew it was something-50 :) Twas a while ago since I last touched a Unibus box.. can you tell? :) > Disks on the RQDXn reports as RDxx or RXxx, while disks on > the [KU]DA-50 > reports as RAxx (from a hardware point of view). They're both MSCP > controllers though. Yup. The UC0x talks MSCP (and/or TMSCP, if configured) on the Qbus side, and SCSI on the device side. I have an UC08 which is configured for MSCP on bus 0, and TMSCP on bus1. The attached Exabyte 8200 (2GB) is seen as a giant TK50 :) That was on the MVII, though.. havent used it since. Was going to put it in the 11/83, _if_ I can find a BA123. Anyone got one of those laying around? :) Cheers, Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Mon Mar 26 12:14:44 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:14:44 +1000 (EST) Subject: [pups] New Release of VTserver program Message-ID: <200103260214.f2Q2Ej738474@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> All, I spent the weekend working on my VTserver program, which lets you copy disk images in/out of a PDP-11 without a tape drive. It's at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver Could I get anybody with a PDP-11, 256Kbytes of core, and no tape drive to try this out. I'm keen to find out which -11 models it does or doesn't work on. Also, if you have less than 256Kbytes of core, please let me know if you want Vtserver to run on your platform. If there's enough interest, I'll try to rewrite the code to fit in a smaller footprint. At present, Fred van Kempen is also working on adding VT support to Ultrix-11. When he's done, we will do a merge of the server, and add his Ultrix client code into a separate directory of the VT distribution. Attached is some more blurb from the README. Warren The Vtserver program provides you with a method of copying a disk image into a PDP-11, or extracting a disk image from a PDP-11, without a tape drive or indeed an installed operating system. The approach here is use a nearby Unix or Linux computer as both the PDP-11 console and as a virtual tape server. The VTserver software comes as two components: a set of PDP-11 software which acts as the virtual tape client, and the server which is hosted on the nearby Unix machine. The two computers are connected via an RS-232 null modem with hardware handshaking. I've used the Ersatz-11 2.0 demo simulator with various CPU models, and RL02 and RK05 disk images, to test copy. Here are the results: copy can read and write disk images for /24, /34A, /40, /44, /45, /70 and /94 systems when they have 256Kbytes of memory. It doesn't work for the 11/35 as it doesn't have the MUL instruction, which the 2.11BSD C compiler generates. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Mar 27 20:17:35 2001 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:17:35 +0200 Subject: [pups] RE: Vtserver & 2.11 standalone progs Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A80@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Robert and Warren, Robert asks: > Is Ultrix installable from Vtserver yet? It appears to be the only other > version of unix that will work with MSCP disk drives, and maybe I'd have > better luck with it than 2.11BSD. If you have any Ultrix utilities > semi-running I'd be glad to test them for you! and Warren replies: > Robert, Fred van Kempen has been bashing his head on Ultrix with VT, but > has been making progress over the past few days. I'll cc this e-mail to > him and he can tell you the story :) The status is as follows. Feel free to relay onto the various newsgoups and lists; I obviously lack the time to :) - VTserver runs on my VAX (Ultrix-32 V4.4 and V4.5) - Client code is now in Ultrix-11 V3.1 I can get VTserver to upload the primary boot loader to the PDP-11 (I test with two.. a MicroPDP-11/23 and a MicroPDP-11/53) and that in turn makes the box load the Boot: program. When that is loaded, I can go two ways: - type "install" and Boot: will load the RAM disk from the server, and switch to that. Works. - manually load and run programs. Works. The problem here, is, that Ultrix uses a very complicated memory setup, which forces some MMU fiddling into all the drivers. Warren's driver was done for BSD and V7, which do not have this "problem". I am now adding this MMU support to the driver, and that's the end of it.. all other parts work fine. Here is a test run log. Falafel is the VAX 3100. My VTserver program uploads the boot code to the (Micro-)PDP-11 if the "-o" option is given. {falafel:~/ULT} $ vt -o Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.3 $ stty cs8 -parenb 9600 clocal crtscts Opening port /dev/tty01 .... open Sending PDP-11 Boot Code to uODT ........................................................................ [Enterring TERMINAL/SERVER mode. Escape with ] VTS: Opened boot bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbb bbbbb Sizing Memory... To list options, type help then press 23Boot: vt(0,0)scat VTS: Opened scat VTS: Opened syscall File: vt(0,0)contents VTS: Opened contents File 1: 2 copies of magtape boots File 5: This file (contents) File 6: The program mkfs (make a ULTRIX-11 file system) File 7: The program restor (restore a dump onto a file system) File 8: The program dskinit (disk format and verify) Filre 9: The program bads (scan disk for brams for memory disk (file system image ) File 14: rcmds: optional software loaded into ROOT (TAR image) File 15: | V File 31: ucmds: optional software loaded into /USR (TAR images) File 32: sysgen: optional sorftware for re-loading sysgen (TAR image) File 33: The ULTRIX-11 root file system in dump/restor format File 34: The ULTRIX-11 /usr file system in dump/restor format Exit called 23Boot: ------------------------------------ The other commands work similarly. I only need to revamp the MMU stuff, and then I'm done and we can boot/install Ultrix-11 from VT ! --fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA86317 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:58:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Mar 28 07:18:40 2001 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:18:40 +0200 Subject: [pups] RE: Vtserver & 2.11 standalone progs Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A86@mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Guys, > Robert, Fred van Kempen has been bashing his head on Ultrix with VT, but > has been making progress over the past few days. I'll cc this e-mail to > him and he can tell you the story :) As of today, it is WORKING ! I just finished a (slooooow :) system load onto a MicroPDP-11/23. Works like a charm.. just takes a while. Here is a log: {falafel:~/ULT} $ vt -o Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.3 $ stty cs8 -parenb 9600 clocal crtscts Opening port /dev/tty01 .... open Sending PDP-11 Boot Code to uODT ........................................................................ [Enterring TERMINAL/SERVER mode. Escape with ] VTS: Opened sas/boot bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbb bbbbbb Sizing Memory... To list options, type help then press 23Boot: install Copying auto-install programs to memory disk... VTS: Opened data/saprog.dsk rrrRrRRRRRRRRRRrrRRRRRRRrRrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrr 100K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 200K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrRrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ****** ULTRIX-11 System Disk Load you need to answer some questions about your system's configuration. Enter your answer, using only lowercase characters, then press . If you need help answering any of the questions, enter a ? then press . Press to continue: ****** WARNING *ks must be converted to the new 1K block file system. Proceed with the installation ? y Target processor is an 11/23 ? y CURRENT CPU = 11/23, TARGET CPU = 11/23 System disk type ? y\yrd51 ****** CAUTION ****** You must scan MSCP disks for bad blocks, type ? for help! Scan system disk(s) for bad blocks ? y ****** SCANNING SYSTEM DISK(s) FOR BAD BLOCKS ****** ULTRIX-11 MSCP Disk Initialization Program Disk type < ra60 ra80 ra81 rx33 rx50 rd31 rd32 rd51 rd52 rd53 rd54 rc25 >: rd51 Unit number < 0-3 >: 0 Starting block number < 0 >: 0 Number of blocks to check < 21600 >: READING... 21600 blocks checked 0 bad blocks found 0 bad blocks replaced Exit called ****** BAD BLOCK SCAN COMPLETE ****** ****** MAKING EMPTY (ROOT) FILE SYSTEM ****** File system size: 3730 Disk type: rd51 Processor type: 23 File system name: root Volume name: sd_rd0 File system: rd(0,0) isize = 2384 m/n = 1 72 Exit called ****** EMPTY FILE SYSTEM COMPLETED ****** ****** RESTORING (ROOT) ONTO SYSTEM DISK ****** Input: vt(0,0)root VTS: Opened data/root.dmp Disk: rd(0,0) rRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrrrrrrrRrRrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrRrrrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrR rRrR rRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrrrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrRrrrr rrrr rRrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrr 100K sent [... deleted ...] 3600K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrRrrrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrREnd of dump media ****** FILE SYSTEM RESTORE COMPLETE ****** ****** CHECKING (ROOT) FILE SYSTEM ****** File: rd(0,0) Salvage free list ? n rd(0,0): files 305 (r=280,d=17,b=1,c=7,p=0,l=0) used 3389 (i=182,ii=0,iii=0,d=3207) free 190 missing 0 ****** FILE SYSTEM CHECK COMPLETE ****** ****** MAKING EMPTY (USR) FILE SYSTEM ****** File system size: 5934 Disk type: rd51 Processor type: 23 File system name: /usr Volume name: sd_rd0 File system: rd(0,9700) isize = 3792 m/n = 1 72 Exit called ****** EMPTY FILE SYSTEM COMPLETED ****** ****** RESTORING (USR) ONTO SYSTEM DISK ****** Input: vt(0,0)usr VTS: Opened data/usr.dmp Disk: rd(0,9700) rRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrR rRrR rRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrR rRrR rrrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRr 100K sent [... deleted ...] 5400K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrRrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrr RrRr RrRrrrrrRrrrRrRrRrREnd of dump media ****** FILE SYSTEM RESTORE COMPLETE ****** ****** CHECKING (USR) FILE SYSTEM ****** File: rd(0,9700) Salvage free list ? n rd(0,9700): files 619 (r=570,d=49,b=0,c=0,p=0,l=0) used 4824 (i=228,ii=1,iii=0,d=4594) free 872 missing 0 ****** FILE SYSTEM CHECK COMPLETE ****** ****** COPYING BOOT TO SYSTEM DISK BLOCK ZERO ****** ****** BLOCK ZERO BOOT LOADED ****** ****** BOOTING ULTRIX-11 SYSTEM TO SINGLE-USER MODE ****** Sizing Memory... 23Boot: rd(0,0)unix (CTRL/C will abort auto-boot) rd(0,0)unix: 14784+17024+8192+8000+8064+8000+8064+8128+8000+7808+7936+7936+7680+ 7360+1344 eráóe ½ äelete ëill ½ U iîtr ½ Ã Û [Back to host.] That's where the parity stuff bites us (see the dicussion regarding 2.11BSD :) but I'll fix that later.. its a make-up change, trivial. Let's continue with Kermit: {falafel:~/ULT} $ kermit Connecting to /dev/tty01, speed 9600. The escape character is ^\ (ASCII 28). Type the escape character followed by C to get back, or followed by ? to see other options. This program performs operating system setup functions during installation and normal system operation. Setup operates in one of three possible modes (phases), depending on the current state of the system. The three modes are: Phase 1: Initial setup -- prepares system for first sysgen. Phase 2: Final setup -- completes the system setup. Phase 3: Change setup -- handles system setup changes. The program will ask several setup questions. Enter your answer to each question, using lowercase characters, then press . The questions include helpful hints enclosed in angle brackets < > and/or parenthesis ( ). If you need additional help answering any question, enter a ? or the word help then press . You can correct typing mistakes by pressing the key to erase a single character or to erase the entire line. You can interrupt the setup program by typing . This allows you to abort the setup process or restart it. Press to continue: Is the console terminal a CRT (video terminal) ? y PLEASE CONFIRM: console is a VIDEO terminal ? y ****** READING SETUP DATA FROM setup.info FILE ****** (vt(0,0)boot) - bad load device! The initial setup program cannot obtain the information it needs to complete the installation from the setup.info file. The sdload program writes this information into the setup.info file after loading the software onto the system disk. For some unknown reason the setup program cannot access the information. You can supply the missing information or abort the installation. If you continue, the program will prompt you for the following: o Setup phase number o System disk type o Target processor type o Software load device type Continue the installation ? n ****** INITIAL SETUP ABORTED ****** You have the following options: o Restart the installation procedure at the beginning. o Execute the following steps to retry the initial setup: Halt the processor. Execute the hardware bootstrap for the system disk. The setup program should restart automatically, if it does not, execute: cd /.setup; setup. o Contact the Telephone Support Center or your local DIGITAL software services office for assistance. # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ and that's where it currently ends. I did already upgrade the root file system dump (hey.. I knew it was working once it started load that one.. :) so the kernel is already up to spec. I also have updated versions of /etc/rdate and /bin/date on it, so we can install using this era, and not go back to the early 70s :) Problems to be fixed: - icky parity stuff in VTserver (terminal mode) .. there are more problems with it. I think the receive buffer can overflow if we are in the main server_loop() routine... causing us to loose characters on input. - no kernel support for the VT device, so, past the initial load, we're still fucked, so to speak. In other words.. Warren, sweetie.. should we change our priorities and do the kernel driver first, and THEN redo the protocol as discussed last night? Cheers, Fred (**yawn** - 109 straight hours of coding :) From cube1 at home.com Sat Mar 31 13:38:04 2001 From: cube1 at home.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:38:04 -0600 Subject: [pups] Re: New Release of VTserver program In-Reply-To: <200103282045.GAA92101@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0@cirithi> Well, I had mixed success on a PDP-11/24. First off, a couple of bugs. In vtserver.c in the code that loads the bootstrap via console odt, the "C" format strings have "%6o". These need to be changed to "%6.6o" to make it work on my 11/24. Otherwise you get leading spaces. Also, the code that sends an entire ODT command in one "write()" fails. I had to change that (and the one that sends the "G" command) into a loop where I wrote just one character, and then read back one character that the 11/24 echoed. Otherwise it just hung. I suspect both of these changes would fix problems on some machines and would not harm any others. So, I got around that, and the standalone loaded. (Hooray) But..... When I tried to use my RK07 as input ( hk(0,0,0) , I got an error: sc=1 cs2=64 er=40 . Upon examination, HKCS1 bit 10 was indeed off (indicating an RK611 controller) whereas the RK07 bit for the drive at +12(octal) was set ON. So, the error itself is not unreasonable. But.... I looked at the code in hk.c, and tried it manually after resetting the machine, and the code should be getting the expected drive error when it first tries to address it as an RK06. That should cause it to switch to thinking it is an RK07, but something is going haywire. And, if I boot a pack, the boot code correctly figures out that it is an RK07 (when I look after it reads the boot block off of a garbage pack, Bit 10 in HKCS1 is indeed on). So, my guess is that the code in hk.c is busted in some way. Are there "2.11BSD for dummies under an emulator" instructions somewhere, so that I could hardwire hk.c to an RK07 temporarily? Or, perhaps can someone point me to the physical memory addresses in hk.c so I could just patch the array to tell it I have 2 RK07's ahead of time, rather than having it attempt to auto-detect the drive type? Haaaaaaaaaaaaalp 8~) Jay Jaeger --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1 at home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10752 for pups-liszt; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:55:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From robin at ruffnready.co.uk Sat Mar 31 17:47:28 2001 From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:47:28 +0100 Subject: [pups] Re: New Release of VTserver program In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0@cirithi> References: <200103282045.GAA92101@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0@cirithi> Message-ID: In message <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0 at cirithi>, Jay Jaeger writes >Well, I had mixed success on a PDP-11/24. > >First off, a couple of bugs. > >In vtserver.c in the code that loads the bootstrap via console odt, the "C" >format strings have "%6o". These need to be changed to "%6.6o" to make it >work on my 11/24. Otherwise you get leading spaces. > >Also, the code that sends an entire ODT command in one "write()" fails. I >had to change that (and the one that sends the "G" command) into a loop >where I wrote just one character, and then read back one character that the >11/24 echoed. Otherwise it just hung. > >I suspect both of these changes would fix problems on some machines and >would not harm any others. > >So, I got around that, and the standalone loaded. (Hooray) But..... > >When I tried to use my RK07 as input ( hk(0,0,0) , I got an error: sc=1 >cs2=64 er=40 . Upon examination, HKCS1 bit 10 was indeed off (indicating >an RK611 controller) whereas the RK07 bit for the drive at +12(octal) was >set ON. So, the error itself is not unreasonable. But.... > >I looked at the code in hk.c, and tried it manually after resetting the >machine, and the code should be getting the expected drive error when it >first tries to address it as an RK06. That should cause it to switch to >thinking it is an RK07, but something is going haywire. And, if I boot a >pack, the boot code correctly figures out that it is an RK07 (when I look >after it reads the boot block off of a garbage pack, Bit 10 in HKCS1 is >indeed on). > >So, my guess is that the code in hk.c is busted in some way. > >Are there "2.11BSD for dummies under an emulator" instructions somewhere, >so that I could hardwire hk.c to an RK07 temporarily? Or, perhaps can >someone point me to the physical memory addresses in hk.c so I could just >patch the array to tell it I have 2 RK07's ahead of time, rather than >having it attempt to auto-detect the drive type? > Jay, I don't know how to do this and I suspect that it would be very difficult (someone PLEASE prove me wrong). But, if you load it into an emulator using another type of disk, say, an RP05 or RM05 that the emulator can support, then you can play with hk.c to your heart's content. Then you can run the code out and test it on the PDP. Cheers Robin >Haaaaaaaaaaaaalp 8~) > >Jay Jaeger >--- >Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection >cube1 at home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollect >ion > ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin at ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA12583 for pups-liszt; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 00:33:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)