From grog at lemis.com Wed Dec 5 09:25:15 2007 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:25:15 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] test / [ In-Reply-To: <20071121135104.GB14401@anteil.com> References: <20071121135104.GB14401@anteil.com> Message-ID: <20071204232515.GZ67217@dereel.lemis.com> On Wednesday, 21 November 2007 at 8:51:04 -0500, Jim Capp wrote: > On Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 01:35:53PM +0000, Tim Bradshaw wrote: >> Does anyone know (remember) which Unices had .../bin/[ be a link >> to .../bin/test. I remember this being the case, but it is not so on >> any recent Solaris. It is the case on my Mac, so in at least one BSD >> derivative. I looked through a 7th edition tarball from the archive >> and it's not the case there. So my guess is that it is a BSDism, and >> it probably was the case in SunOS 4 and before, and I guess on at >> least 4.2BSD & later. > > I remember using /bin/[ in SCO Xenix and SCO Unix, and AT&T SYS III & > SYS V FreeBSD and NetBSD still have this link: $ ls -li /bin/[ /bin/test 683091 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 7460 Aug 19 2006 /bin/[ 683091 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 7460 Aug 19 2006 /bin/test I suppose OpenBSD does too, but I don't have a machine to check. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cjsvance at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:20:38 2007 From: cjsvance at gmail.com (Christopher Vance) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:20:38 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] test / [ In-Reply-To: <20071204232515.GZ67217@dereel.lemis.com> References: <20071121135104.GB14401@anteil.com> <20071204232515.GZ67217@dereel.lemis.com> Message-ID: On Dec 5, 2007 10:25 AM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > FreeBSD and NetBSD still have this link: > > $ ls -li /bin/[ /bin/test > 683091 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 7460 Aug 19 2006 /bin/[ > 683091 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 7460 Aug 19 2006 /bin/test > > I suppose OpenBSD does too, but I don't have a machine to check. Still there as of the latest release. -- Christopher Vance From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es Thu Dec 6 02:00:09 2007 From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (Jose R. Valverde) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:00:09 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] test / [ In-Reply-To: References: <20071121135104.GB14401@anteil.com> <20071204232515.GZ67217@dereel.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20071205170009.3e807bec@veda.cnb.uam.es> What I seem to remember is that it was a trick used in BSD to achieve compatibility with SystemV shell scripts (the shell on System-V would understand [ .. ] but the one on BSD wouldn't and making [ a symlink to test would fix the problem). My copy of Portable C and UNIX system programming only mentions that the [ .. ] construct may be missing on some shell versions and this can usually be fixed by symlinking [ to test. A hardlink from /bin/[ to /bin/test was present on Ultrix since at least 3.1, which would also attest to the BSDism or workaround for non-System-V systems. Sorry, this is too far back in time for my feeble memory. j On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:20:38 +1100 "Christopher Vance" wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 10:25 AM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > FreeBSD and NetBSD still have this link: > > > > $ ls -li /bin/[ /bin/test > > 683091 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 7460 Aug 19 2006 /bin/[ > > 683091 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 7460 Aug 19 2006 /bin/test > > > > I suppose OpenBSD does too, but I don't have a machine to check. > > Still there as of the latest release. > > -- > Christopher Vance > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From arnold at skeeve.com Fri Dec 21 19:35:19 2007 From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:35:19 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Anyone have a copy of the TUHS archive available for rsync? Message-ID: <200712210935.lBL9ZJUK004685@skeeve.com> Hi. Warren and I seem to be on opposite ends of the world network wise, such that I am unable to rsync to minnie to keep my copy of the TUHS archive up to date. Does anyone out there in TUHS land have a copy they're willing to make available for syncing? Thanks! Arnold Robbins From asbesto at freaknet.org Fri Dec 21 20:09:13 2007 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:09:13 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] HP Apollo Series 400 and DOMAIN/OS... Message-ID: <20071221100913.GA26408@freaknet.org> Hi! We just recovered an HP APOLLO Series 400 in our computer museum, and we got the installation tapes of DOMAIN/OS. It seem a very particular flavour of BSD 5.3. We also made a dump of the tapes, to preserve it. :D Does someone know more about it? What about licensing? Is it covered by some sort of hobbyist license? Kisses to everybody! :) asbesto/freaknet computer museum http://museum.freaknet.org -- [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ] From wb at freebie.xs4all.nl Fri Dec 21 20:38:58 2007 From: wb at freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:38:58 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] HP Apollo Series 400 and DOMAIN/OS... In-Reply-To: <20071221100913.GA26408@freaknet.org> References: <20071221100913.GA26408@freaknet.org> Message-ID: <20071221103857.GA79085@freebie.xs4all.nl> Quoting asbesto, who wrote on Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 11:09:13AM +0100 .. > > Hi! > > We just recovered an HP APOLLO Series 400 in our computer museum, > and we got the installation tapes of DOMAIN/OS. It seem a very > particular flavour of BSD 5.3. We also made a dump of the > tapes, to preserve it. :D Ah... fond memories. Our CAD/CAM systems at Philips information systems were these Domain OS boxes. > > Does someone know more about it? What about licensing? Is > it covered by some sort of hobbyist license? No clue. > Kisses to everybody! :) Hm, can you send a picture first? ;-) > asbesto/freaknet computer museum > http://museum.freaknet.org > > -- > [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] > [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] > [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] > [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ] > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs --- end of quoted text --- -- Wilko From tfb at tfeb.org Fri Dec 21 21:15:19 2007 From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:15:19 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] HP Apollo Series 400 and DOMAIN/OS... In-Reply-To: <20071221100913.GA26408@freaknet.org> References: <20071221100913.GA26408@freaknet.org> Message-ID: <8E64A249-6E64-41F2-BCBF-E5A365D62905@tfeb.org> On 21 Dec 2007, at 10:09, asbesto wrote: > > > We just recovered an HP APOLLO Series 400 in our computer museum, > and we got the installation tapes of DOMAIN/OS. It seem a very > particular flavour of BSD 5.3. We also made a dump of the > tapes, to preserve it. :D > My memory, which is fading, is that DOMAIN/OS was previously Aegis, and was not actually a Unix at all, although it had (or later had, perhaps) a lot of compatibility. It has all sorts of cool features. From wb at freebie.xs4all.nl Fri Dec 21 22:31:13 2007 From: wb at freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:31:13 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] HP Apollo Series 400 and DOMAIN/OS... In-Reply-To: <8E64A249-6E64-41F2-BCBF-E5A365D62905@tfeb.org> References: <20071221100913.GA26408@freaknet.org> <8E64A249-6E64-41F2-BCBF-E5A365D62905@tfeb.org> Message-ID: <20071221123113.GB79553@freebie.xs4all.nl> Quoting Tim Bradshaw, who wrote on Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 11:15:19AM +0000 .. > On 21 Dec 2007, at 10:09, asbesto wrote: > > > > > > We just recovered an HP APOLLO Series 400 in our computer museum, > > and we got the installation tapes of DOMAIN/OS. It seem a very > > particular flavour of BSD 5.3. We also made a dump of the > > tapes, to preserve it. :D > > > > My memory, which is fading, is that DOMAIN/OS was previously Aegis, > and was not actually a Unix at all, although it had (or later had, > perhaps) a lot of compatibility. It has all sorts of cool features. You could have DomainOS take a BSD or a SysV personality. Very interesting. There was also some fileserver functionality that allows //fileserver/some/path/somefile style access to everything we had hanging off the tokenring network. Rather neat. Wilko From tfb at tfeb.org Fri Dec 21 22:58:40 2007 From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:58:40 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] HP Apollo Series 400 and DOMAIN/OS... In-Reply-To: <20071221123113.GB79553@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20071221100913.GA26408@freaknet.org> <8E64A249-6E64-41F2-BCBF-E5A365D62905@tfeb.org> <20071221123113.GB79553@freebie.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: On 21 Dec 2007, at 12:31, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > You could have DomainOS take a BSD or a SysV personality. Very > interesting. Very tangentially, Masscomp's RTU (real time Unix) could do this too. Other than that I think it is definitely something best forgotten, as it was pretty horrid (although my memory may be biassed by the awfulness of the HW) From lm at bitmover.com Sat Dec 22 12:18:33 2007 From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:18:33 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071222021832.GA27487@bitmover.com> > Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:58:40 +0000 > From: Tim Bradshaw > Subject: Re: [TUHS] HP Apollo Series 400 and DOMAIN/OS... > To: Wilko Bulte > Cc: tuhs at tuhs.org, asbesto > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > On 21 Dec 2007, at 12:31, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > You could have DomainOS take a BSD or a SysV personality. Very > > interesting. > > Very tangentially, Masscomp's RTU (real time Unix) could do this > too. Other than that I think it is definitely something best > forgotten, as it was pretty horrid (although my memory may be biassed > by the awfulness of the HW) Oh, I have fond memories of the Masscomp. That's where I learned how to do sys admin (recovered from an rm -rf /) as well as networking (based on 4.1c BSD as I recall, plus hacks). Masscomp had a really nicely redone version of the socket programming docs that was most helpful at the time. I was ..!uwvax!geowhiz!geophys!lm as I recall and all the geo* were Masscomps. Ah, the joys of 20 users on a 40MB disk. That's why I wrote something that turned Honeyman's time optimal but space worst case pathalias db into O(time optimal) as well as O(space best case). Only dynamic programming alg I've ever done and written up. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com From wb at freebie.xs4all.nl Sat Dec 22 20:06:24 2007 From: wb at freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:06:24 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <20071222021832.GA27487@bitmover.com> References: <20071222021832.GA27487@bitmover.com> Message-ID: <20071222100624.GA86816@freebie.xs4all.nl> Quoting Larry McVoy, who wrote on Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 06:18:33PM -0800 .. > > Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:58:40 +0000 > > From: Tim Bradshaw > > Subject: Re: [TUHS] HP Apollo Series 400 and DOMAIN/OS... > > To: Wilko Bulte > > Cc: tuhs at tuhs.org, asbesto > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > > On 21 Dec 2007, at 12:31, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > > > You could have DomainOS take a BSD or a SysV personality. Very > > > interesting. > > > > Very tangentially, Masscomp's RTU (real time Unix) could do this > > too. Other than that I think it is definitely something best > > forgotten, as it was pretty horrid (although my memory may be biassed > > by the awfulness of the HW) > > Oh, I have fond memories of the Masscomp. That's where I learned how to > do sys admin (recovered from an rm -rf /) as well as networking (based > on 4.1c BSD as I recall, plus hacks). Masscomp had a really nicely redone > version of the socket programming docs that was most helpful at the time. > > I was ..!uwvax!geowhiz!geophys!lm as I recall and all the geo* were > Masscomps. Hm, yes, in the Apollo Domain days it was ..!mcvax!philapd!wilko Wilko From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es Wed Dec 26 22:57:47 2007 From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (Jose R. Valverde) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:57:47 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] TUHS archives and rsync Message-ID: <20071226135747.57741969@veda.cnb.uam.es> On the TUHS site there is a list of other available sites. If you want you can try mine (ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS) but be advised that I try to keep copies of more things than the original site and it may be bigger. I can't remember offhand now if rsync was set up or not and I'm now on holidays abroad so it's difficult to check (mainly due to the strange french keyboard). Anyway, you're welcome and I will make sure rsync works (when I'm back on January) at my site. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural From lm at bitmover.com Thu Dec 27 12:08:00 2007 From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:08:00 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071227020800.GH6651@bitmover.com> I'm pinging my contacts to see if I can find a place to host a mirror. I think that Oregon State Open Source Lab has a fat link to the net and I used to know Scott K but he's moved on. If I get anywhere I'll get back to the list. BTW, whoever is the listmom, can you change me from digest to regular? -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com From jcapp at anteil.com Thu Dec 27 13:17:55 2007 From: jcapp at anteil.com (Jim Capp) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:17:55 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <20071227020800.GH6651@bitmover.com> References: <20071227020800.GH6651@bitmover.com> Message-ID: <20071227031755.GA9570@anteil.com> Larry, How fat of a pipe do you need? Jim On Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 06:08:00PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > I'm pinging my contacts to see if I can find a place to host a mirror. > I think that Oregon State Open Source Lab has a fat link to the net > and I used to know Scott K but he's moved on. If I get anywhere I'll > get back to the list. > > BTW, whoever is the listmom, can you change me from digest to regular? > -- > --- > Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Dec 27 12:17:09 2007 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:17:09 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <20071227020800.GH6651@bitmover.com> References: <20071227020800.GH6651@bitmover.com> Message-ID: On Dec 26, 2007, at 6:08 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: > I'm pinging my contacts to see if I can find a place to host a mirror. > I think that Oregon State Open Source Lab has a fat link to the net > and I used to know Scott K but he's moved on. If I get anywhere I'll > get back to the list. > What is the total size and estimated monthly bandwidth of the archive? I may be able to host a mirror on my managed server. -Seth From lm at bitmover.com Thu Dec 27 13:39:22 2007 From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:39:22 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <20071227031755.GA9570@anteil.com> References: <20071227020800.GH6651@bitmover.com> <20071227031755.GA9570@anteil.com> Message-ID: <20071227033921.GA7053@bitmover.com> It's not me, it's all of you. OSL has a gigabit link to the net if I recall correctly. But I don't think TUHS needs that. There are only so many of us old farts. But fast is nice. I do think that there is a _huge_ amount of value in the TUHS archive. I think that anyone I hire who has not wandered through there, should. Anyhoo, I'm pinging the OSL guys, I suspect that they will be cool about hosting a mirror, they have been way cool in the past. For that matter, they'd host www.tuhs.org but I suspect Warren may not be cool with that. Dunno. I can arrange introductions, they are a cool group, this is a cool group, who knows? I'm off to put the chickens to bed (yeah, I live in that sort of place. My net connection is a 100KB/sec but http://bitmover.com/lm/house makes it worth it, great to live in the country with the bobcats, coyotes, boar, mountain lions, and still commute to silicon valley). I'll report back as soon as I know more. Happy holidays to everyone and for the record, I'm one of those guys that have learned a huge amount from the old school unix and apply it to this day. One of my machines is named slovax because that was the 11/750 at Wisconsin that held the BSD source and I had an account. Still remember the day I read popen() source and realized you code fork in libc - that was an eye-opener. I think it still has a lot of value and appreciate Warren and all of you for caring and passing on the knowledge. Cheers all, --lm On Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 10:17:55PM -0500, Jim Capp wrote: > Larry, > > How fat of a pipe do you need? > > Jim > > > On Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 06:08:00PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > > I'm pinging my contacts to see if I can find a place to host a mirror. > > I think that Oregon State Open Source Lab has a fat link to the net > > and I used to know Scott K but he's moved on. If I get anywhere I'll > > get back to the list. > > > > BTW, whoever is the listmom, can you change me from digest to regular? > > -- > > --- > > Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com > > _______________________________________________ > > TUHS mailing list > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com From wb at freebie.xs4all.nl Thu Dec 27 20:14:42 2007 From: wb at freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:14:42 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <20071227033921.GA7053@bitmover.com> References: <20071227020800.GH6651@bitmover.com> <20071227031755.GA9570@anteil.com> <20071227033921.GA7053@bitmover.com> Message-ID: <20071227101441.GA28854@freebie.xs4all.nl> Quoting Larry McVoy, who wrote on Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 07:39:22PM -0800 .. > It's not me, it's all of you. OSL has a gigabit link to the net if I > recall correctly. But I don't think TUHS needs that. There are only > so many of us old farts. But fast is nice. > > I do think that there is a _huge_ amount of value in the TUHS archive. > I think that anyone I hire who has not wandered through there, should. > > Anyhoo, I'm pinging the OSL guys, I suspect that they will be cool about > hosting a mirror, they have been way cool in the past. For that matter, > they'd host www.tuhs.org but I suspect Warren may not be cool with that. > Dunno. I can arrange introductions, they are a cool group, this is a > cool group, who knows? Hm.. if all else fails we could check if ftp.freebsd.org would be available to mirror. Grog, Warner, what do you think? Wilko From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es Sun Dec 30 07:07:50 2007 From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (Jose R. Valverde) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:07:50 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <20071227101441.GA28854@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20071227020800.GH6651@bitmover.com> <20071227031755.GA9570@anteil.com> <20071227033921.GA7053@bitmover.com> <20071227101441.GA28854@freebie.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20071229220750.5a1d85c9@veda.cnb.uam.es> As for archive stats, my copy is some 11GB (but I have expanded a number of subtrees and added a few things). It changes very little if any at all usually, meaning that monthly traffic for syncing is negligible. BTW, I'm supposed to be hooked on a 2Gbps pipe, but since we mirror many huge biological databases (in the order of TB) and they may change by day significantly, and other sites use us as a hub to mirror their copy of said dbs in turn, out bandwidth may vary depending on day and time of day (if you hit us during the mirroring phase of the day it may be quite slow). We're also on the Grid running large jobs with large data moves... Oh well. Just give it a try. BTW, on our site you'll also find an 'os' directory with a large collection of additional UNIX/UNIX-like/other systems and sources (ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/os/ or rsync://ftp.es.embnet.org/tuhs/ ). j On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:14:42 +0100 Wilko Bulte wrote: > Quoting Larry McVoy, who wrote on Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 07:39:22PM -0800 .. > > It's not me, it's all of you. OSL has a gigabit link to the net if I > > recall correctly. But I don't think TUHS needs that. There are only > > so many of us old farts. But fast is nice. > > > > I do think that there is a _huge_ amount of value in the TUHS archive. > > I think that anyone I hire who has not wandered through there, should. > > > > Anyhoo, I'm pinging the OSL guys, I suspect that they will be cool about > > hosting a mirror, they have been way cool in the past. For that matter, > > they'd host www.tuhs.org but I suspect Warren may not be cool with that. > > Dunno. I can arrange introductions, they are a cool group, this is a > > cool group, who knows? > > Hm.. if all else fails we could check if ftp.freebsd.org would be available > to mirror. Grog, Warner, what do you think? > > Wilko > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural