From rjtucke at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 10:00:32 2008 From: rjtucke at gmail.com (Ross Tucker) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:00:32 -0700 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface Message-ID: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, (This has got to be the strangest cross-post I've ever done.) I have just taken a bet from a friend to challenge my geekiness. I was telling him about my love of Vintage Technology and he proposed that I combine two hitherto separate hobbies and see what happens. The topics: the DEC PDP-11 minicomputer (vintage: 1970s) and vacuum-tube ham radios (vintage: 1960s). I do sincerely apologize for cross-posting, but I am rather younger than either of these technologies (vintage: 1984) and this seems like a monumental challenge. My question for y'all: how could I possibly design+build a project that uses both of these technologies? My thought is to port some radio receiver Digital Signal Processing (DSP) application into PDP-11 assembler, compile and run it via emulator on my PC, then use it with the vacuum-tube regenerative receiver that I built a few years ago... Does anybody know if PDP-11 UNIXes even had the capability for a "sound card"? Or, to get ambitious, I would LOVE to design some interface circuitry between PDP-11 digital circuitry and vacuum-tube electronics... The challenges are legion: the tube side of the circuit operates around 350V DC levels with radio-frequency (RF) signals at 7 MHz (almost the clock rate of some PDP-11s!) and I don't have the DEC Handbooks, but I'm pretty sure that even those ancient pre-TTL circuits operate below 350V! So... any, er, "ideas"? Best regards, Ross Tucker From carl.lowenstein at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 11:37:31 2008 From: carl.lowenstein at gmail.com (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:37:31 -0800 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5904d5730812091737g501a4b4ai98ac0862b13107be@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Ross Tucker wrote: > Dear all, > (This has got to be the strangest cross-post I've ever done.) > > I have just taken a bet from a friend to challenge my geekiness. I was > telling him about my love of Vintage Technology and he proposed that I > combine two hitherto separate hobbies and see what happens. The > topics: the DEC PDP-11 minicomputer (vintage: 1970s) and vacuum-tube > ham radios (vintage: 1960s). I do sincerely apologize for > cross-posting, but I am rather younger than either of these > technologies (vintage: 1984) and this seems like a monumental > challenge. > > My question for y'all: how could I possibly design+build a project > that uses both of these technologies? My thought is to port some radio > receiver Digital Signal Processing (DSP) application into PDP-11 > assembler, compile and run it via emulator on my PC, then use it with > the vacuum-tube regenerative receiver that I built a few years ago... > Does anybody know if PDP-11 UNIXes even had the capability for a > "sound card"? Well, you could look at "Votrax" on Wikipedia. Allegedly, the first words spoken by a Unix system at Bell Labs, using its Votrax synthesizer, were "file not found". Things that are now known as "sound cards" were called A:D and D:A converters back in those days. And there were a fair variety of them available for both Unibus and Qbus systems. > Or, to get ambitious, I would LOVE to design some > interface circuitry between PDP-11 digital circuitry and vacuum-tube > electronics... The challenges are legion: the tube side of the circuit > operates around 350V DC levels with radio-frequency (RF) signals at 7 > MHz (almost the clock rate of some PDP-11s!) and I don't have the DEC > Handbooks, but I'm pretty sure that even those ancient pre-TTL > circuits operate below 350V! The vacuum-tube circuits may be running from 350 VDC but somewhere there are low-level inputs from which everything is amplified. Think microphone. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein at ucsd.edu From rjtucke at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 12:49:12 2008 From: rjtucke at gmail.com (Ross Tucker) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:49:12 -0700 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f30dc950812091849gda4d77cy4428df8671149b8a@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, (This has got to be the strangest cross-post I've ever done.) I have just taken a bet from a friend to challenge my geekiness. I was telling him about my love of Vintage Technology and he proposed that I combine two hitherto separate hobbies and see what happens. The topics: the DEC PDP-11 minicomputer (vintage: 1970s) and vacuum-tube ham radios (vintage: 1960s). I do sincerely apologize for cross-posting, but I am rather younger than either of these technologies (vintage: 1984) and this seems like a monumental challenge. My question for y'all: how could I possibly design+build a project that uses both of these technologies? My thought is to port some radio receiver Digital Signal Processing (DSP) application into PDP-11 assembler, compile and run it via emulator on my PC, then use it with the vacuum-tube regenerative receiver that I built a few years ago... Does anybody know if PDP-11 UNIXes even had the capability for a "sound card"? Or, to get ambitious, I would LOVE to design some interface circuitry between PDP-11 digital circuitry and vacuum-tube electronics... The challenges are legion: the tube side of the circuit operates around 350V DC levels with radio-frequency (RF) signals at 7 MHz (almost the clock rate of some PDP-11s!) and I don't have the DEC Handbooks, but I'm pretty sure that even those ancient pre-TTL circuits operate below 350V! So... any, er, "ideas"? Best regards, Ross Tucker CCed to: 'glowbugs' list at From IanK at vulcan.com Wed Dec 10 13:33:50 2008 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:33:50 -0800 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <2f30dc950812091849gda4d77cy4428df8671149b8a@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com>, <2f30dc950812091849gda4d77cy4428df8671149b8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In addition to the DECtalk standalone device, there was a Qbus module called DECVoice (DTC04) that was intended for telephone systems (voice response systems). I have the module in my personal collection; unfortunately, what I've been told is that there's a lot of others' intellectual property in the software (it's a microcoded device) so it would be a serious challenge to get the code to run it - too bad. -- Ian ________________________________________ From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf Of Ross Tucker [rjtucke at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:49 PM To: pups at minnie.tuhs.org Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface Dear all, (This has got to be the strangest cross-post I've ever done.) I have just taken a bet from a friend to challenge my geekiness. I was telling him about my love of Vintage Technology and he proposed that I combine two hitherto separate hobbies and see what happens. The topics: the DEC PDP-11 minicomputer (vintage: 1970s) and vacuum-tube ham radios (vintage: 1960s). I do sincerely apologize for cross-posting, but I am rather younger than either of these technologies (vintage: 1984) and this seems like a monumental challenge. My question for y'all: how could I possibly design+build a project that uses both of these technologies? My thought is to port some radio receiver Digital Signal Processing (DSP) application into PDP-11 assembler, compile and run it via emulator on my PC, then use it with the vacuum-tube regenerative receiver that I built a few years ago... Does anybody know if PDP-11 UNIXes even had the capability for a "sound card"? Or, to get ambitious, I would LOVE to design some interface circuitry between PDP-11 digital circuitry and vacuum-tube electronics... The challenges are legion: the tube side of the circuit operates around 350V DC levels with radio-frequency (RF) signals at 7 MHz (almost the clock rate of some PDP-11s!) and I don't have the DEC Handbooks, but I'm pretty sure that even those ancient pre-TTL circuits operate below 350V! So... any, er, "ideas"? Best regards, Ross Tucker CCed to: 'glowbugs' list at _______________________________________________ PUPS mailing list PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From cube1 at charter.net Wed Dec 10 12:41:49 2008 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:41:49 -0600 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <5904d5730812091737g501a4b4ai98ac0862b13107be@mail.gmail.co m> References: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20081209203649.01d65d08@cirithi> Back in the 1970's Paul Pierce used a D/A converter on a PDP-11 at the UW Computer Systems Lab to generate music much like early PC sound cards did -- by combining harmonics in various ratios. Although he happened to have used RT-11, there is no reason why it could not be done under Unix. (The UW Computer Systems Lab also had a Votrax). So, sure, you could, with an A/D and D/A converter do something like that. I am not sure that the various emulators have done emulation for A/D or D/A, but in principle, it ought to be possible. AC coupling (via a capacitor) of the input or output would remove any concerns about the relatively high DC voltages. Besides, input signals ordinarily come into the grids of vacuum tube circuits by way of a transformer. Ditto for outputs from tube circuits. Jay Jaeger At 05:37 PM 12/9/2008 -0800, Carl Lowenstein wrote: >On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Ross Tucker wrote: > > Dear all, > > (This has got to be the strangest cross-post I've ever done.) > > > > I have just taken a bet from a friend to challenge my geekiness. I was > > telling him about my love of Vintage Technology and he proposed that I > > combine two hitherto separate hobbies and see what happens. The > > topics: the DEC PDP-11 minicomputer (vintage: 1970s) and vacuum-tube > > ham radios (vintage: 1960s). I do sincerely apologize for > > cross-posting, but I am rather younger than either of these > > technologies (vintage: 1984) and this seems like a monumental > > challenge. > > > > My question for y'all: how could I possibly design+build a project > > that uses both of these technologies? My thought is to port some radio > > receiver Digital Signal Processing (DSP) application into PDP-11 > > assembler, compile and run it via emulator on my PC, then use it with > > the vacuum-tube regenerative receiver that I built a few years ago... > > Does anybody know if PDP-11 UNIXes even had the capability for a > > "sound card"? > >Well, you could look at "Votrax" on Wikipedia. Allegedly, the first >words spoken by a Unix system at Bell Labs, using its Votrax >synthesizer, were "file not found". > >Things that are now known as "sound cards" were called A:D and D:A >converters back in those days. And there were a fair variety of them >available for both Unibus and Qbus systems. > > > Or, to get ambitious, I would LOVE to design some > > interface circuitry between PDP-11 digital circuitry and vacuum-tube > > electronics... The challenges are legion: the tube side of the circuit > > operates around 350V DC levels with radio-frequency (RF) signals at 7 > > MHz (almost the clock rate of some PDP-11s!) and I don't have the DEC > > Handbooks, but I'm pretty sure that even those ancient pre-TTL > > circuits operate below 350V! > >The vacuum-tube circuits may be running from 350 VDC but somewhere >there are low-level inputs from which everything is amplified. Think >microphone. > > carl >-- > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > clowenstein at ucsd.edu >_______________________________________________ >PUPS mailing list >PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org >https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1 at charter.net From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Wed Dec 10 15:02:08 2008 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 21:02:08 -0800 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <108A91F6-216E-46D3-990A-DB3ABAE687BA@sfu.ca> How about using the pdp-11 to decode Morse code transmissions that you receive on your vintage radio? This would eliminate any issues with interfacing to HV circuits, as you could simply run the radio's audio output through a PLL circuit to detect tone/no tone and then read this single bit signal on the pdp-11. You decode the Morse code in software. I have code for you (in an old version of Pascal) if you'd like. It adapts to the Morse code speed automatically and "catches up" to changes in Morse speed in about 5 letters maximum, as I recall. From an undergrad project I completed in the late 1970s! I could also dig out the hardware info. Then again you might have more fun reinventing this yourself! Kevin On 9-Dec-08, at 4:00 PM, Ross Tucker wrote: > Dear all, > (This has got to be the strangest cross-post I've ever done.) > > I have just taken a bet from a friend to challenge my geekiness. I was > telling him about my love of Vintage Technology and he proposed that I > combine two hitherto separate hobbies and see what happens. The > topics: the DEC PDP-11 minicomputer (vintage: 1970s) and vacuum-tube > ham radios (vintage: 1960s). I do sincerely apologize for > cross-posting, but I am rather younger than either of these > technologies (vintage: 1984) and this seems like a monumental > challenge. > > My question for y'all: how could I possibly design+build a project > that uses both of these technologies? My thought is to port some radio > receiver Digital Signal Processing (DSP) application into PDP-11 > assembler, compile and run it via emulator on my PC, then use it with > the vacuum-tube regenerative receiver that I built a few years ago... > Does anybody know if PDP-11 UNIXes even had the capability for a > "sound card"? Or, to get ambitious, I would LOVE to design some > interface circuitry between PDP-11 digital circuitry and vacuum-tube > electronics... The challenges are legion: the tube side of the circuit > operates around 350V DC levels with radio-frequency (RF) signals at 7 > MHz (almost the clock rate of some PDP-11s!) and I don't have the DEC > Handbooks, but I'm pretty sure that even those ancient pre-TTL > circuits operate below 350V! > > So... any, er, "ideas"? > > Best regards, > Ross Tucker > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Dec 10 19:22:41 2008 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:22:41 +0100 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081210102241.4ba8027e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:00:32 -0700 "Ross Tucker" wrote: > Does anybody know if PDP-11 UNIXes even had the capability for a > "sound card"? There are ADC cards for QBus (and most likely UniBUS) PDP-11s... What about PSK31? QRSS? -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk Wed Dec 10 19:21:37 2008 From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (robinb at ruffnready.co.uk) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:21:37 +0000 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That's a wonderful idea. As has been pointed out there are a number of A2D and D2A boards available for the PDP11. However it would be fun to do it yourself and design one from scratch although getting hold of prototyping boards for unibus or Q bus could be a bit difficult these days. You would probably have to down convert your RF to audio to keep everything in the realm of what the PDP could handle though something like PSK should be able to be resolved, morse should be a doddle. Have a go, this is seriously pointless geeky stuff and as a result huge fun. Robin rjtucke at gmail.com wrote: > Dear all, > (This has got to be the strangest cross-post I've ever done.) > > I have just taken a bet from a friend to challenge my geekiness. I was > telling him about my love of Vintage Technology and he proposed that I > combine two hitherto separate hobbies and see what happens. The > topics: the DEC PDP-11 minicomputer (vintage: 1970s) and vacuum-tube > ham radios (vintage: 1960s). I do sincerely apologize for > cross-posting, but I am rather younger than either of these > technologies (vintage: 1984) and this seems like a monumental > challenge. > > My question for y'all: how could I possibly design+build a project > that uses both of these technologies? My thought is to port some radio > receiver Digital Signal Processing (DSP) application into PDP-11 > assembler, compile and run it via emulator on my PC, then use it with > the vacuum-tube regenerative receiver that I built a few years ago... > Does anybody know if PDP-11 UNIXes even had the capability for a > "sound card"? Or, to get ambitious, I would LOVE to design some > interface circuitry between PDP-11 digital circuitry and vacuum-tube > electronics... The challenges are legion: the tube side of the circuit > operates around 350V DC levels with radio-frequency (RF) signals at 7 > MHz (almost the clock rate of some PDP-11s!) and I don't have the DEC > Handbooks, but I'm pretty sure that even those ancient pre-TTL > circuits operate below 350V! > > So... any, er, "ideas"? > > Best regards, > Ross Tucker > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > From fred.van.kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Dec 11 04:09:34 2008 From: fred.van.kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:09:34 +0100 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface Message-ID: <4AAEDF5C75F8034081EC5DB322150E3C014A59@MWNLEX01.mwcorp.lan> > (This has got to be the strangest cross-post I've ever done.) You've got that right :P > I do sincerely apologize for > cross-posting, but I am rather younger than either of these > technologies (vintage: 1984) and this seems like a monumental > challenge. Well, several projects can be thought off in this scenario, but if you want to keep it mildly useful, try to do something with audio tubes connected to an '11 (OK, here's a spoiler: "you'll make a PDP11-driven music player using a tube-based audio backend"), or such. You could go into analog computing as well, but that can be kinda hairy. This more or less only requires building a usable D/A converter on the '11, which then interfaces to the tubes. I'd use a DMA- based 16-bit DA controller. Cheers, Fred (smiling @ his nano-11 system running Ultrix, all the size of a matchbox..) From bill at cs.uofs.edu Thu Dec 11 07:25:30 2008 From: bill at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:25:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <5904d5730812091737g501a4b4ai98ac0862b13107be@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> <5904d5730812091737g501a4b4ai98ac0862b13107be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50683.71.245.40.168.1228944330.squirrel@www.cs.uofs.edu> If the intent was to be the first one to wed computers and vacuum tubes, you have missed the boat by several decades. I, and I am sure many others did it long ago. I ran HF AX.25 Packet Radio on my Heathkit HW-101. Of course, if the desire is to wed the PDP-11 and vacuum tubes, if it hasn't been done already the same could be done. I would bet I could put an old version of the KA9Q software on a PDP-11 running BSD or even Ultrix-11. And then, fire up my HW-101 (yes, I still have it) and the deed is done. Of course, I could also use my HF rig which is also of the vacuum tube genre. Drake Twins. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Dec 11 10:04:07 2008 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:04:07 -0800 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <50683.71.245.40.168.1228944330.squirrel@www.cs.uofs.edu> References: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> <5904d5730812091737g501a4b4ai98ac0862b13107be@mail.gmail.com> <50683.71.245.40.168.1228944330.squirrel@www.cs.uofs.edu> Message-ID: One could always build "a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins"... For those Trekkies out there... Kevin On 10-Dec-08, at 1:25 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > If the intent was to be the first one to wed computers and vacuum > tubes, > you have missed the boat by several decades. I, and I am sure many > others > did it long ago. I ran HF AX.25 Packet Radio on my Heathkit HW-101. > > Of course, if the desire is to wed the PDP-11 and vacuum tubes, if it > hasn't been done already the same could be done. I would bet I could > put an old version of the KA9Q software on a PDP-11 running BSD or > even > Ultrix-11. And then, fire up my HW-101 (yes, I still have it) and the > deed is done. Of course, I could also use my HF rig which is also of > the vacuum tube genre. Drake Twins. :-) > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three > wolves > bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > From IanK at vulcan.com Thu Dec 11 10:06:01 2008 From: IanK at vulcan.com (Ian King) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:06:01 -0800 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: References: <2f30dc950812091600t2028222dw3f855b2271a12593@mail.gmail.com> <5904d5730812091737g501a4b4ai98ac0862b13107be@mail.gmail.com> <50683.71.245.40.168.1228944330.squirrel@www.cs.uofs.edu> Message-ID: But only if you have Joan Collins to inspire you. > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups- > bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf Of Kevin McQuiggin > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:04 PM > To: Bill Gunshannon > Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface > > One could always build "a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives > and bearskins"... > > For those Trekkies out there... > > Kevin > > On 10-Dec-08, at 1:25 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > > > If the intent was to be the first one to wed computers and vacuum > > tubes, > > you have missed the boat by several decades. I, and I am sure many > > others > > did it long ago. I ran HF AX.25 Packet Radio on my Heathkit HW-101. > > > > Of course, if the desire is to wed the PDP-11 and vacuum tubes, if it > > hasn't been done already the same could be done. I would bet I could > > put an old version of the KA9Q software on a PDP-11 running BSD or > > even > > Ultrix-11. And then, fire up my HW-101 (yes, I still have it) and > the > > deed is done. Of course, I could also use my HF rig which is also of > > the vacuum tube genre. Drake Twins. :-) > > > > bill > > > > -- > > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three > > wolves > > bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton | > > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Dec 12 03:14:36 2008 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:14:36 +0100 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: <4AAEDF5C75F8034081EC5DB322150E3C014A59@MWNLEX01.mwcorp.lan> References: <4AAEDF5C75F8034081EC5DB322150E3C014A59@MWNLEX01.mwcorp.lan> Message-ID: <20081211181436.6bd5c50a.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:09:34 +0100 "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > smiling @ his nano-11 system running Ultrix, all the size of > a matchbox.. nano-11? Please elaborate. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From fred.van.kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Dec 12 04:16:52 2008 From: fred.van.kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:16:52 +0100 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface Message-ID: <4AAEDF5C75F8034081EC5DB322150E3C014A79@MWNLEX01.mwcorp.lan> I was bored, and ported my version of SimH (which is an older version, but with some stuff ripped out, and other stuff put in) to my operating system for my ARM-based MCU board. It now "acts" like a regular 11/83 when turned on, and will happily boot Ultrix-11 off the CF card :) Not as fast as running on a peecee, not half as much fun as running a real '11, but hey, it DOES fit into my backpack. --f -----Original Message----- From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf Of Jochen Kunz Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:15 PM To: pups at minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Re: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:09:34 +0100 "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > smiling @ his nano-11 system running Ultrix, all the size of > a matchbox.. nano-11? Please elaborate. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ _______________________________________________ PUPS mailing list PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From brantley at coraid.com Fri Dec 12 04:43:58 2008 From: brantley at coraid.com (Brantley Coile) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:58 -0500 Subject: [pups] V7 boot tape files Message-ID: <491EBE22-B214-422B-B3E4-B464C19E83E4@coraid.com> Hey there, I have two questions. First, does anyone have the original files from the Seventh Edition boot tape? Second, does simh support tape operations like writing file markers? No doubt you can see where I'm headed with this. I want to attach the original boot tape and install the original V7 tape onto simh. Thanks, Brantley Coile From Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de Sat Dec 13 01:51:09 2008 From: Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de (Hellwig Geisse) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:51:09 +0100 Subject: [pups] V7 boot tape files In-Reply-To: <491EBE22-B214-422B-B3E4-B464C19E83E4@coraid.com> References: <491EBE22-B214-422B-B3E4-B464C19E83E4@coraid.com> Message-ID: <1229097069.6522.520.camel@papa> Brantley, On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 13:43 -0500, Brantley Coile wrote: > I have two questions. First, does anyone have the original files from > the Seventh Edition boot tape? Second, does simh support tape > operations like writing file markers? No doubt you can see where I'm > headed with this. I want to attach the original boot tape and install > the original V7 tape onto simh. some time ago I did exactly what you plan to do. I used the original V7 tape files from Keith Bostic, which are hosted by PUPS. I wrote a small program that converted the distinct files into a single 'tape' with a format that simh understands. I could then proceed with the installation of V7 exactly as the manual says. The whole package with instructions is available here: http://homepages.fh-giessen.de/~hg53/pdp11-unix/ Hellwig From bqt at softjar.se Sat Dec 13 02:42:21 2008 From: bqt at softjar.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:42:21 +0100 Subject: [pups] V7 boot tape files In-Reply-To: <491EBE22-B214-422B-B3E4-B464C19E83E4@coraid.com> References: <491EBE22-B214-422B-B3E4-B464C19E83E4@coraid.com> Message-ID: <4942946D.9070306@softjar.se> Brantley Coile skrev: > Hey there, > > I have two questions. First, does anyone have the original files from > the Seventh Edition boot tape? Second, does simh support tape > operations like writing file markers? No doubt you can see where I'm > headed with this. I want to attach the original boot tape and install > the original V7 tape onto simh. I don't have any tapes, but I'm sure someone do. However, the answer to the second question is: of course. Otherwise it couldn't emulate a tape. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 13 10:49:11 2008 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:49:11 -0500 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello! The term is Trekker, Kevin. And it takes place during the second act of a very important episode. But I freely admit that I am interested in this decidedly strange mix of technology. -- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net "The Force will be with you always." Obi-Wan Kenobi   > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf > Of Kevin McQuiggin > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:04 PM > To: Bill Gunshannon > Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface > > One could always build "a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives > and bearskins"... > > For those Trekkies out there... > > Kevin > > On 10-Dec-08, at 1:25 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > > > If the intent was to be the first one to wed computers and vacuum > > tubes, > > you have missed the boat by several decades. I, and I am sure many > > others > > did it long ago. I ran HF AX.25 Packet Radio on my Heathkit HW-101. > > > > Of course, if the desire is to wed the PDP-11 and vacuum tubes, if it > > hasn't been done already the same could be done. I would bet I could > > put an old version of the KA9Q software on a PDP-11 running BSD or > > even > > Ultrix-11. And then, fire up my HW-101 (yes, I still have it) and the > > deed is done. Of course, I could also use my HF rig which is also of > > the vacuum tube genre. Drake Twins. :-) > > > > bill > > > > -- > > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three > > wolves > > bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton | > > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 13 11:14:35 2008 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:14:35 -0500 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface DAC-6A2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <308E8CEB5AAF4419A84F9066DF8E3FBA@who8> Hello! (Resend because a member missed it.) The term is Trekker, Kevin. And it takes place during the second act of a very important episode. But I freely admit that I am interested in this decidedly strange mix of technology. -- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net "The Force will be with you always." Obi-Wan Kenobi   > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf > Of Kevin McQuiggin > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:04 PM > To: Bill Gunshannon > Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] PDP-11 / vacuum tube interface > > One could always build "a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives > and bearskins"... > > For those Trekkies out there... > > Kevin > > On 10-Dec-08, at 1:25 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > > > If the intent was to be the first one to wed computers and vacuum > > tubes, > > you have missed the boat by several decades. I, and I am sure many > > others > > did it long ago. I ran HF AX.25 Packet Radio on my Heathkit HW-101. > > > > Of course, if the desire is to wed the PDP-11 and vacuum tubes, if it > > hasn't been done already the same could be done. I would bet I could > > put an old version of the KA9Q software on a PDP-11 running BSD or > > even > > Ultrix-11. And then, fire up my HW-101 (yes, I still have it) and the > > deed is done. Of course, I could also use my HF rig which is also of > > the vacuum tube genre. Drake Twins. :-) > > > > bill > > > > -- > > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three > > wolves > > bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton | > > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From lorddoomicus at mac.com Wed Dec 10 10:30:14 2008 From: lorddoomicus at mac.com (Lord Doomicus) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:30:14 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] /usr/bin/bs on HPUX? Message-ID: <75D36093-D9D0-48EF-ACAC-DF739E0236B6@mac.com> I was poking around an HP UX system at work today, and noticed a command I've never noticed before ... /usr/bin/bs. I'm sure it's been there for a long time, even though I've been an HPUX admin for more than a decade, sometimes I'm just blind ... but anyway .... I tried to search on google ... it looks like only HPUX, AIX, and Maybe AU/X has it. Seems to be some kind of pseudo BASIC like interpreter. Anyone ever use it for anything? Has anyone even noticed it before? I'll have to boot my Crimson to see if IRIX has it. - Derrik Derrik Walker v2.0, RHCE lorddoomicus at mac.com http://www.doomd.net "There's nothing nice about Steve Jobs and there's nothing evil about Bill Gates." -- Chuck Peddle, MOS 6502 Chip Designer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfb at tfeb.org Wed Dec 10 19:45:43 2008 From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:45:43 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] /usr/bin/bs on HPUX? In-Reply-To: <75D36093-D9D0-48EF-ACAC-DF739E0236B6@mac.com> References: <75D36093-D9D0-48EF-ACAC-DF739E0236B6@mac.com> Message-ID: <239FF1D4-67E4-4D4C-9FE1-07B60DF27436@tfeb.org> On 10 Dec 2008, at 00:30, Lord Doomicus wrote: > > Anyone ever use it for anything? Has anyone even noticed it > before? I'll have to boot my Crimson to see if IRIX has it. I remember a bs command (which was some kind of mini-BASIC) in the 4.2BSD machine I first used. However it may have been added by the vendor rather than have been in 4.2BSD proper. I used it at the time, and have occasionally missed it since - nothing I now use regularly (OSX and Solaris) seems to have it. --tim From neozeed at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 00:29:49 2008 From: neozeed at gmail.com (Jason Stevens) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:29:49 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] /usr/bin/bs on HPUX? In-Reply-To: <75D36093-D9D0-48EF-ACAC-DF739E0236B6@mac.com> References: <75D36093-D9D0-48EF-ACAC-DF739E0236B6@mac.com> Message-ID: <46b366130812100629y696b9a63q4ab58c4afd230af8@mail.gmail.com> I just fired up my copy of 4.2 on simh.... 4.2 BSD UNIX (myname) login: root Last login: Thu Sep 8 19:45:39 on console 4.2 BSD UNIX #3: Thu Sep 8 08:46:54 PDT 1983 Would you like to play a game? You have mail. Don't login as root, use su myname# cd /bin myname# ls bs bs not found myname# which bs no bs in /etc /usr/ucb /bin /usr/bin /usr/local /usr/hosts . myname# man bs No manual entry for bs. myname# Sorry that wasn't much help..... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cowan at ccil.org Thu Dec 11 04:08:26 2008 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:08:26 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] /usr/bin/bs on HPUX? In-Reply-To: <75D36093-D9D0-48EF-ACAC-DF739E0236B6@mac.com> References: <75D36093-D9D0-48EF-ACAC-DF739E0236B6@mac.com> Message-ID: <20081210180826.GE1746@mercury.ccil.org> Lord Doomicus scripsit: > I was poking around an HP UX system at work today, and noticed a > command I've never noticed before ... /usr/bin/bs. > > I'm sure it's been there for a long time, even though I've been an > HPUX admin for more than a decade, sometimes I'm just blind ... but > anyway .... > > I tried to search on google ... it looks like only HPUX, AIX, and > Maybe AU/X has it. Seems to be some kind of pseudo BASIC like > interpreter. That's just what it is. Here are the things I now know about it. 0. The string "bs" gets an awful lot of false Google hits, no matter how hard you try. 1. "bs" was written at AT&T, probably at the Labs, at some time between the release of 32V and System III. It was part of both System III and at least some System V releases. 2. It was probably meant as a replacement for "bas", which was a more conventional GW-Basic-style interpreter written in PDP-11 assembly language. (32V still had the PDP-11 source, which of course didn't work.) 3. At one time System III source code was available on the net, including bs.c and bs.1, but apparently it no longer is. I downloaded it then but don't have it any more. 4. I was able to compile it under several Unixes, but it wouldn't run: I think there must have been some kind of dependency on memory layout, but never found out exactly what. 5. I remember from the man page that it had regular expressions, and two commands "compile" and "execute" that switched modes to storing expressions and executing them on the spot, respectively. That eliminated the need for line numbers. 6. It was apparently never part of Solaris. 7. It was never part of any BSD release, on which "bs" was the battleships game. 8. I can't find the man page on line anywhere either. 9. The man page said it had some Snobol features. I think that meant the ability to return failure -- I vaguely remember an "freturn" command. 10. 99 Bottles of Beer has a sample bs program at http://www2.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-bs-103.html . 11. If someone sends me a man page, I'll consider reimplementing it as Open Source. -- We are lost, lost. No name, no business, no Precious, nothing. Only empty. Only hungry: yes, we are hungry. A few little fishes, nassty bony little fishes, for a poor creature, and they say death. So wise they are; so just, so very just. --Gollum cowan at ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan From jrvalverde at cnb.csic.es Thu Dec 18 00:27:26 2008 From: jrvalverde at cnb.csic.es (Jose R. Valverde) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:27:26 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] /usr/bin/bs on HPUX? Message-ID: <20081217152726.24f01d4e@cnb.csic.es> Bit of digging: > 1. "bs" was written at AT&T, probably at the Labs, at some time between > the release of 32V and System III. It was part of both System III and > at least some System V releases. And of course it is in TUHS! Remember we have 32V and SIII. For example, look into TUHS/Other/Distributions/Plexis_Sys3/ or TUHS/PDP-11/Distributions/usdl/SysIII/ The sources contain 'bs' under cmd/bs The latter one (under USDL) contains also the man page under usr/src/man/man1 (as 'bs.1'). So, there. You have it. This leads me to consider we would greatly benefit from an expanded and indexed TUHS repository tree. I made one on my mirror long ago, but a series of disk crashes ended with it. Maybe, if there is interest I could do it again. j -- EMBnet/CNB Scientific Computing Service Solving all your computer needs for Scientific Research. http://bioportal.cnb.csic.es http://www.es.embnet.org From cowan at ccil.org Thu Dec 18 01:39:45 2008 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:39:45 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] /usr/bin/bs on HPUX? In-Reply-To: <20081217152726.24f01d4e@cnb.csic.es> References: <20081217152726.24f01d4e@cnb.csic.es> Message-ID: <20081217153945.GE12605@mercury.ccil.org> Jose R. Valverde scripsit: > And of course it is in TUHS! Remember we have 32V and SIII. For example, > look into > > TUHS/Other/Distributions/Plexis_Sys3/ > or > TUHS/PDP-11/Distributions/usdl/SysIII/ As I pointed out in my previous post, both of these directories have been removed from minnie, presumably because there is doubt about the licensing status of System III. Among the listed mirrors at http://minnie.tuhs.org/TUHS/archive_sites.html , at least unix-archive.pdp11.org.ru still has copies. -- Go, and never darken my towels again! John Cowan --Rufus T. Firefly http://ccil.org/~cowan From lyricalnanoha at usotsuki.hoshinet.org Thu Dec 18 02:14:24 2008 From: lyricalnanoha at usotsuki.hoshinet.org (lyricalnanoha) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:14:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] /usr/bin/bs on HPUX? In-Reply-To: <20081217153945.GE12605@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20081217152726.24f01d4e@cnb.csic.es> <20081217153945.GE12605@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Dec 2008, John Cowan wrote: > Jose R. Valverde scripsit: > >> And of course it is in TUHS! Remember we have 32V and SIII. For example, >> look into >> >> TUHS/Other/Distributions/Plexis_Sys3/ >> or >> TUHS/PDP-11/Distributions/usdl/SysIII/ > > As I pointed out in my previous post, both of these directories have > been removed from minnie, presumably because there is doubt about > the licensing status of System III. Among the listed mirrors > at http://minnie.tuhs.org/TUHS/archive_sites.html , at least > unix-archive.pdp11.org.ru still has copies. Hm. I had it already. *grovels through the source* it's using a very bizarre form of longjmp()... was that the normal syntax in sys3? it's using a struct, instead of the two parameters glibc wants. (yeah yeah, I know, EW GNU, but I just wanted to see what I was up against. That's the only thing spitting errors but there's a ton of warnings.) -uso. From cowan at ccil.org Thu Dec 18 02:35:51 2008 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:35:51 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] /usr/bin/bs on HPUX? In-Reply-To: References: <20081217152726.24f01d4e@cnb.csic.es> <20081217153945.GE12605@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: <20081217163550.GF12605@mercury.ccil.org> lyricalnanoha scripsit: > it's using a very bizarre form of longjmp()... was that the normal syntax > in sys3? it's using a struct, instead of the two parameters glibc wants. v7 wants two parameters too. This was probably some attempt at cleanup that didn't survive. To fork a hacker nursery rhyme: System III! System III! See how it runs! See how it runs! Its longjmp() loses so totally, It runs all its programs in 'I & D', It's made by our fav'rite monopoly, System III! -- "Well, I'm back." --Sam John Cowan From wkt at tuhs.org Thu Dec 18 09:05:30 2008 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 09:05:30 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Filesystems with FUSE Message-ID: <20081217230530.GA64474@minnie.tuhs.org> http://osxbook.com/software/ancientfs/ Amit Singh has added support for a whole bunch of early UNIX filesystem and archive formats to FUSE. Cheers, Warren From cowan at ccil.org Thu Dec 18 09:16:46 2008 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:16:46 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Filesystems with FUSE In-Reply-To: <20081217230530.GA64474@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20081217230530.GA64474@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <20081217231645.GC28193@mercury.ccil.org> Warren Toomey scripsit: > http://osxbook.com/software/ancientfs/ > > Amit Singh has added support for a whole bunch of early UNIX filesystem and > archive formats to FUSE. Does this depend heavily on OS X, or should it work on Linux and BSD as well? -- Some people open all the Windows; John Cowan wise wives welcome the spring cowan at ccil.org by moving the Unix. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan --ad for Unix Book Units (U.K.) (see http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/unix3image.gif) From wkt at tuhs.org Thu Dec 18 09:22:41 2008 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 09:22:41 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Filesystems with FUSE In-Reply-To: <20081217231645.GC28193@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20081217230530.GA64474@minnie.tuhs.org> <20081217231645.GC28193@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: <20081217232241.GA64798@minnie.tuhs.org> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 06:16:46PM -0500, John Cowan wrote: > > Amit Singh has added support for a whole bunch of early UNIX filesystem and > > archive formats to FUSE. > Does this depend heavily on OS X, or should it work on Linux and BSD as well? No idea. I had a brief look at some of the code on the web site and it seems relatively neutral, but I have not downloaded it yet. I've sent an e-mail with the same question to Amit. Warren From norman at oclsc.org Thu Dec 18 09:46:44 2008 From: norman at oclsc.org (Norman Wilson) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:46:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Filesystems with FUSE Message-ID: <1229557604.28312.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> John Cowan: > Does this depend heavily on OS X, or should it work on Linux and BSD as well? Warren Krun Toomey: No idea. I had a brief look at some of the code on the web site and it seems relatively neutral, but I have not downloaded it yet. I've sent an e-mail with the same question to Amit. ====== I keep meaning to poke about at FUSE, since it plays more or less the role of the file-server-implementation library setup I wrote for my own purposes 20 years ago (in the context of a UNIX variant that cannot yet be distributed freely). But I'd be surprised if the stuff was terribly MacOS X dependent. Certainly FUSE exists in Linux, and the libraries and requisite kernel module are even included in some Linux distributions (notably recent editions of Fedora), because sshfs is built atop FUSE. Norman Wilson Toronto ON From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org Thu Dec 18 10:13:21 2008 From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:13:21 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Filesystems with FUSE In-Reply-To: <20081217232241.GA64798@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20081217230530.GA64474@minnie.tuhs.org> <20081217231645.GC28193@mercury.ccil.org> <20081217232241.GA64798@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <494995A1.3080109@rubidium.dyndns.org> Warren Toomey skrev: > On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 06:16:46PM -0500, John Cowan wrote: >>> Amit Singh has added support for a whole bunch of early UNIX filesystem and >>> archive formats to FUSE. >> Does this depend heavily on OS X, or should it work on Linux and BSD as well? > > No idea. I had a brief look at some of the code on the web site and it seems > relatively neutral, but I have not downloaded it yet. I've sent an e-mail > with the same question to Amit. OK, a checkout and compile-attempt later I can tell you that it doesn't cook directly out of the box into the pot. Should not be that much magic to get it cooking thought. Cheers, Magnus From cowan at ccil.org Thu Dec 18 10:27:20 2008 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:27:20 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Filesystems with FUSE In-Reply-To: <1229557604.28312.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> References: <1229557604.28312.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> Message-ID: <20081218002720.GB9007@mercury.ccil.org> Norman Wilson scripsit: > I keep meaning to poke about at FUSE, since it plays more or > less the role of the file-server-implementation library setup > I wrote for my own purposes 20 years ago (in the context of a > UNIX variant that cannot yet be distributed freely). "Cannot yet" is good. Is there any hope of seeing the 10th Edition emerge from the shadows, ever? -- We pledge allegiance to the penguin John Cowan and to the intellectual property regime cowan at ccil.org for which he stands, one world under http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Linux, with free music and open source software for all. --Julian Dibbell on Brazil, edited From lorddoomicus at mac.com Thu Dec 18 09:55:24 2008 From: lorddoomicus at mac.com (Lord Doomicus) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:55:24 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] /usr/bin/bs on HPUX? In-Reply-To: <20081217163550.GF12605@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20081217152726.24f01d4e@cnb.csic.es> <20081217153945.GE12605@mercury.ccil.org> <20081217163550.GF12605@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: On Dec 17, 2008, at 11:35 AM, John Cowan wrote: > lyricalnanoha scripsit: > >> it's using a very bizarre form of longjmp()... was that the normal >> syntax >> in sys3? it's using a struct, instead of the two parameters glibc >> wants. > > v7 wants two parameters too. This was probably some attempt at > cleanup that > didn't survive. > > To fork a hacker nursery rhyme: > > System III! System III! > See how it runs! See how it runs! > Its longjmp() loses so totally, > It runs all its programs in 'I & D', > It's made by our fav'rite monopoly, > System III! Yea, I got the same thing when I tried compile it under OS X. I know HPUX has it, so I checked the man page for longjmp under HPUX, and like OS X, it takes two parameters. So, someplace, there is a version of the bs source that has the correct longjmp system call. But, it may only be in the HPUX source tree. I should boot up one of my SGI's and have a look to see if it has bs, and what version of longjmp it uses. - Derrik Derrik Walker v2.0, RHCE lorddoomicus at mac.com http://www.doomd.net "There's nothing nice about Steve Jobs and there's nothing evil about Bill Gates." -- Chuck Peddle, MOS 6502 Chip Designer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norman at oclsc.org Thu Dec 18 11:32:50 2008 From: norman at oclsc.org (Norman Wilson) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:32:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Systems with netb (was Filesystems with FUSE) Message-ID: <1229564341.1920.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> John Cowan: "Cannot yet" is good. Is there any hope of seeing the 10th Edition emerge from the shadows, ever? ======= Unless some energetic person skilled at nudging people in a friendly way takes on the cause, probably not. Even were Novell to release the source code to System V, that wouldn't of itself make 10/e open, since there's plenty in the latter system that differs substantially from the former--all the really interesting bits, in fact. As has been discussed here at some point in the past, someone would have to get (updated list of players) Novell, AT&T, and Alcatel all to agree to the release. The good news is that that would probably mostly require getting Novell to agree that there's nothing in the system worth protecting for commercial reasons, and the others just to officially say what is already likely true, that they don't care. The bad news is that that is probably substantial work, as he who talked what was then SCO into a hobbyist-source-license for 7/e and predecessors knows well. But Warren has already gone far beyond the call in his work (and cannot be thanked enough, so herewith I thank him yet again); and I'm old and tired and was never really good at talking to corporate types anyway; and in my humble but correct opinion, it is the combination of energy and dedication and ability to talk cheerfully to corporate times and to persist without losing either hope or patience or cordiality that is needed. That has always been a rare combination. If someone thinks he or she has the requisite skills and wants to have a go, I'll be glad to offer what little help I can, and I'm sure Warren likewise. But somehow I wonder whether it will actually happen before the world ends on 2038 January 18. Norman Wilson Toronto ON From lm at bitmover.com Thu Dec 18 11:53:51 2008 From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:53:51 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Systems with netb (was Filesystems with FUSE) In-Reply-To: <1229564341.1920.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> References: <1229564341.1920.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> Message-ID: <20081218015350.GE22766@bitmover.com> > Unless some energetic person skilled at nudging people in > a friendly way takes on the cause, probably not. Energetic? At 46, running a company for 10 years, hmm, less so. Skilled in nudging people in a friendly way, hmm, google me. Effective? Yes. Willing? Yes. Not sure if that helps. Who are the players? -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com From wkt at tuhs.org Thu Dec 18 17:19:41 2008 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:19:41 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Filesystems with FUSE In-Reply-To: <20081217231645.GC28193@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20081217230530.GA64474@minnie.tuhs.org> <20081217231645.GC28193@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: <20081218071941.GA70009@minnie.tuhs.org> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 06:16:46PM -0500, John Cowan wrote: > > Amit Singh has added support for a whole bunch of early UNIX filesystem and > > archive formats to FUSE. > Does this depend heavily on OS X, or should it work on Linux and BSD as well? Amit says: As for portability, yes, I have kept AncientFS limited to the cross platform FUSE API (MacFUSE supports much more than the FUSE API). So, it should work on other FUSE implementations with few changes. Cheers, Warren From lehmann at ans-netz.de Thu Dec 18 20:14:03 2008 From: lehmann at ans-netz.de (Oliver Lehmann) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:14:03 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Old UNIX Filesystems with FUSE In-Reply-To: <20081218071941.GA70009@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20081217230530.GA64474@minnie.tuhs.org> <20081217231645.GC28193@mercury.ccil.org> <20081218071941.GA70009@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <20081218101403.94009.qmail@avocado.salatschuessel.net> Hi, Warren Toomey writes: > As for portability, yes, I have kept AncientFS limited to the cross > platform FUSE API (MacFUSE supports much more than the FUSE API). So, > it should work on other FUSE implementations with few changes. I've modified the code so compiles on FreeBSD but dlsym() still does not work: root at nudel ancientfs> ./ancientfs --type v7 --dmg v7_rl02_1145 /mnt/tmp Undefined symbol "unixfs_v7" invalid file system type v7 Exit 255 dlsym() is kinda new to me so I'm a bit lost... I've uploaded a diff to the svn checkout which is mentioned on Amits page here: http://pofo.de/tmp/ancientfs_20081218_01.diff The changes are - casting to satisfy %llu and %lu printf - Makefile adjustments - enhance endian checks to support BYTE_ORDER - work around undefined OSSwap functions From wkt at tuhs.org Tue Dec 23 08:53:31 2008 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:53:31 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] AncientFS ported to Linux and FreeBSD Message-ID: <20081222225331.GA48343@minnie.tuhs.org> Guys, Amit wrote in: http://www.osxbook.com/blog/2008/12/22/ancientfs-on-linux-and-freebsd/ By popular demand, I've "ported" AncientFS to Linux and FreeBSD. Cheers & Merry Xmas to you all, Warren