color hardcopy info (COMPILATION)
Bryan James
bryanj at portia.Stanford.EDU
Thu Jan 31 12:40:53 AEST 1991
Howdy all,
Pardon the phase lag on the following information regarding color hard copy
options for the SGI box. Thanks to all those who responded; your input
was extremely helpful.
Since I have no experience with the printers mentioned, I will save you
from my filtering of the information. Better to let the responses speak
for themselves.
So, without delay, here is a compilation of what I received.
Bryan James <bryanj at reyes.stanford.edu>
Department of Radiation Oncology
Stanford University School of Medicine
=========
We use a Seiko D-Scan (I don't recall the model #, can get it if you want).
It uses a thermal wax transfer process onto special paper, but the quality
of the picture degrades slowly with time (we generally toss them after
1.5 to 2 years). Additionally, the cost is pretty high per picture due to
the paper and wax rolls. However, for short term pictures, the quality is
pretty good for the price (about $8000). More companies are now making them
and the prices are going down (look at Tektronix, Canon, Versatek, etc.).
-Phil Morris
--------
Phil Morris (pmorris at dgi0.bbn.com)
Disclaimer: ME? I'm only a non-smoking cat; can't believe a word I meow.
==========
We have been using a Tektronix 4693DX (it was a 4693D until a recent upgrade)
on our SGIs for over 2 years and we've been quite happy with it. It
produces output on transparencies and paper (not ordinary paper, however).
The color output is very good, the machine have been very reliable, with
one exception - the print mechanism starting leaving (small) streaks on the
output and Tek couldn't fix it! They ended up replacing the entire printer,
piece by piece before it worked correctly. Fortunately, the printer was
under a maintenance contract. Note however that the printer was in use
almost continuously for about 2 years before we had ANY problems. The only
quirk is that the supplies are a bit pricy and Tektronix is currently the
only supplier.
We recently installed a Oce (?) color postscript printer, but we've yet
to connect it to the SGIs. It's owned by a Mac II now. We are also attempting
to transfer images from the SGIs (and Suns) to the Mac (and vice versa)
so as to produce documents with graphics from all sources, etc., that can then
be edited on the Mac. We've yet to actually do all this!
Before you commit to an output device, insist that the vendor place the unit
in your shop for an evaluation period just so you can be assured that IT
WILL WORK with your setup! If they won't do this, look elsewhere.
Good luck.
Larry Thorne
Mississippi State University ERC
larryt at phoenix.erc.msstate.edu
==========
We have a Tektronix 4693D color hardcopy device connected to our
SGI 3130, 4D/210VGX, and 4D/320VGX via centronix parallel ports. We are
please with the results. We save files in an ARCGraph format and then
convert it to the Tektronix format and send files to the hardcopy unit
with lpr. This gives us good copies with the most flexability. The
thermal wax can be scratched off, but with proper care they stay in good
condition. If you have very dark backgrounds, transparencies tend to melt
when projected. I have found if I only use the 3 pass (yellow, cyan,
magenta) option, they usually don't melt. I use the 4 pass (black added)
for paper copies.
You can get units that connect directly to the video output and get
copies of what ever is on the screen. The quality of these units aren't
as good as what we are using. Also you loose a lot of flexability.
Around here at Langley, a lot of people have Seiko thermal printers that
are connected to the video output and the copies they produce don't look
as good as our Tektronix copies
The best copies I have seen came from a Kodak hardcopy unit I saw at
SIGGRAPH '89. They almost looked like photos and the transparencies look
very durable. At the time I think they cost about the same as the
Tektronix unit we have.
--
Brent L. Bates
NASA-Langley Research Center
M.S. 361
Hampton, Virginia 23665-5225
(804) 864-2854
E-mail: blbates at aero4.larc.nasa.gov or blbates at aero8.larc.nasa.gov
==========
Hi,
Well, around here we are using a Seiko with a video interface and an
SGI 4D/70GT. I have used the Seiko's elsewhere and they are reasonable.
Shinko (marketed by Mitsubishi) also has a video interface printer
that I have used in the past with favorable results. These and various
color PostScript printers use a thermal wax transfer process. They
are ok in terms of quality.
I hope that you will compile the results of the responses, as we are
interested in making some changes here, particularly in how we send
images to a printer, and how fast that transfer is. We also would
like to use print spooling on one of the UNIX machines so we can have
accurate charges applied to users.
B Cing U
Buck
--
Loren Buchanan | buck at drax.gsfc.nasa.gov | #include <std_disclaimer.h>
CSC, 1100 West St. | ...!ames!dftsrv!drax!buck | typedef int by
Laurel, MD 20707 | (301) 497-2531 | void where_prohibited(by law){}
Phone tag, America's fastest growing business sport.
==========
We have a kodak xl7700 hardcopy printer. It is expensive- 25k for
color and 17 or so for b/w. It does transparencies and prints, and
the output is GORGEOUS. Prints are expensive, relatively speaking,
running about 4$ each b/w and 7 or so color. Driver has to be
purchased separately, (one source: GW Hannaway in Boulder CO, also
they sell the unit.. 303-440-9631). I have seen many other printers,
but none (at least for sale in the US) that do such a nice job.
No affiliation w/ Kodak.
David
===========
Bryan -
We here at the Vehicle Analysis Branch here at Langley are looking
into the same thing. Right now we are looking at the Canon CLC500.
With software and hooked up it looks like around $90K. That's a bit
whopping, so we are considering leasing it for a few years until better/
cheaper technology comes out. The CLC500 is actuallly a very high-end
workstation in itself, almost. It has a lot of bells and whistles for the
printing industry... most of which we can't use. But they print on regular
paper at up to 400 dpi. It also requires you to run some software on a
server pc or sun (its also now coming out for the IRIS).
My conclusion, after doing a bit of research, is that Canon has the a good
lead on the technology, but they've added so much to it, that its outrageously
expensive. I am sure someone, if not cannon, will come out with a
"plain old printer" using the basic color technology within the year. I mean,
there is such a market developing!! Check out the February 91 issue of
MacWorld for a good article on color output devices. The CLC500 isn't
in there, though, nor is the DuPont 4Cast printer.
We took a long look at the 4cast printer, even had a demo model set up. It
was nice, because it took requests over Ethernet using TCP/IP. But the
little PC interface they had running the thing was very cumbersome to use.
Also, large prints are $6 a copy! 8x10 are $5. We also had a heak of
a time trying to match our monitor colors to the printer. The printer just
didn't have enough control over the color mapping to allow us to get a
full, accurate spectrum. The 4cast is running somewhere in the 50's.
I'm going to take a look into the Tektronix setup Brent has going here
at langley... it might be a quite feasible option. One of our challenges
is to find something postscript compatible so we can print from our
Macs, as well.
If you turn up any other info, I would be very happy to hear about it!
It seems like a near-impossible task for one person to research the
whole arena of full color output devices... especially when it's hard
to figure out exactly where to look. If you like, I will also keep
you informed as to anything we find.
Regards,
Steve Dahmen.
--
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Steve Dahmen, Systems Analyst (804) 864-4519 (W)
M/S 365, NASA Langley Research Center
Hampton, Virginia 23665 smd at rehder.larc.nasa.gov
==========
See the Feb '91 issue of MacWorld which has an evaluation of 14 color printers.
Even though the tests were performed on Macs, it is a good gauge of how well the
various color printing technologies work, and how well the various companies
implemented them. Oh, you might also be interested in the cost...
Dave Marks (SGI and Mac user)
marks at stereo.radc.af.mil
==========
We have Tektronix 4693DX printers and Kodak XL7700 printers for paper and
transparency. These printers print image files. We also have Tek 4693RGB
printers which will print the screen. The DX makes better images but for
speed the RGB is preferabble. Cost is about $8000 for either. N.B. For the
RGB each monitor connected costs about $1500 and you are limited to 8
video inputs. The Kodak is slower, costs more ($20,000) but makes
beautiful images.
Let me know if you need any more info.
--
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===============
The Kodak unit I saw was model XL 7700 Digital Continuous Tone Printer.
I just got a flier from Kodak on it the other day, looks impressive, no
pricing information thou. There were three phone numbers listed for more
information, I haven't had a chance to call, but here they are:
In the U.S. 1-800-445-6325, Ext. 110
In Canada 1-800-465-6325, Dept. 345
Else where 716-726-6749 (FAX: 716-726-6750)
They sent a sample copy, looks like a photo. A few specs.:
8.5"x11" or 11"x11" paper or transparency
200 dpi, 8 bits/color plane => so 24 bits/pixel ?
SCSI & IEEE 488
--
Brent L. Bates
NASA-Langley Research Center
M.S. 361
Hampton, Virginia 23665-5225
(804) 864-2854
E-mail: blbates at aero4.larc.nasa.gov or blbates at aero8.larc.nasa.gov
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