Sun-Spots Digest, v7n5
William LeFebvre
Sun-Spots-Request at Rice.edu
Mon Nov 7 07:12:25 AEST 1988
SUN-SPOTS DIGEST Saturday, 5 November 1988 Volume 7 : Issue 5
Today's Topics:
Administrivia: the results of the poll
Re: rlogin, csh, ^D
Re: Better fix for NSTREAMS
Re: Hardware Flow Control with MTI
Re: 4.0/nfs bug followup
Sunflower memory extension boards for 3/50
Sun and ksh method needed to get shelltool info
386i TeX problems
Request for filter to magnify bitmaps 2X
Using a Miniscribe 1335 with an Adaptec 4000 in a Sun 3/50?
Sun 2, tell me about them
NeXT vs. Sun
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 88 17:08:35 CST
From: William LeFebvre <phil at Rice.edu>
Subject: Administrivia: the results of the poll
Well, I haven't gotten any new votes in a day or two, so I think it is
time to declare the polls closed. The results are pretty much in line
with what I expected. First, let us review the ballot (I will be
referring to the letters and numbers in the totals, so we should redefine
their meaning):
Choices:
A: Moderated and digestified
B: Moderated but not digestified
C: Unmoderated (and of course undigestified).
Demographics:
1: Via Usenet (readnews, rn, notes)
2: Via Internet
3: Via Bitnet
(Usenet readers got a slightly different version: I forgot to add the
"Bitnet" choice to the demographics. I don't think that will cause any
problems). I had to add a fourth choice, because certain people were not
content with the first three: D: Unmoderated but digestified.
First, the totals, broken down demographically:
1: 406
2: 143
3: 14
?: 17 (none specified)
580 total votes
17/580 = .029, so this poll has a margin of error of no more than 3%.
Looking at the total results (all demographic areas) shows no clear
consensus (in all result tables, "Percentage" may not total 100% because
of roundoff error):
Votes Percentage
A: 271 46.7
B: 238 41.0
C: 68 11.7
D: 3 00.5
The undigestify group (regardless of moderation) holds a slight edge:
52.7%. However, looking at the demographic breakdown reveals something
very interesting. First, the Usenet readers' vote:
Votes Percentage
A: 129 31.77
B: 216 53.20
C: 60 14.78
D: 1 00.25
The undigestify group takes a definite edge here: 67.98%. Now let's look
at the Internet readers' votes:
Votes Percentage
A: 120 83.92
B: 17 11.89
C: 4 02.80
D: 2 01.40
This is a very clear statement that the Internet readers want to retain
the current format. As for Bitnet, all 14 people voted to keep the
current format. Those that did not specify a demographic category voted
as follows:
Votes Percentage
A: 8 47.6
B: 5 29.4
C: 4 23.5
So those votes really wouldn't change any of the results.
I think the statement here is pretty clear. Usenet readers want to drop
the digesti format for comp.sys.sun, which Internet readers want to keep
the current format. A majority of the people are in favor of keeping the
list moderated.
So, I intend to undigestify the Usenet side of the list. Here is how I
propose to do this. I will compose a digest just like I always have. I
will choose the articles and the order, reformat and edit them (pruning
quotes, removing extraneous header stuff, trimming signature blocks),
forming a block of messages. I will run the articles through a program
that will post each message individually to comp.sys.sun. Then I will
build a digest package out of the block and mail that out to the addresses
on the main list. And, hopefully, everyone will get what they want. This
should take effect by November 15.
Those of you on Usenet who still want to read the digested version of the
list may request to be added back to the main list. You will then receive
the digests via electronic mail. However, I would encourage you to try
reading comp.sys.sun in its undigested form. You may end up liking it
better.
I would like to thank all those who participated in this survey. If you
have any comments on the above proposal, please mail them to me.
William LeFebvre
<phil at Rice.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 88 10:41:13 MDT
From: caeco!olyis!sol!jlp at cs.utah.edu (Jan L. Peterson)
Subject: Re: rlogin, csh, ^D
Reference: v6n257
In Sun-spots v6n257, dickson at shire.cs.psu.edu (Scott Dickson) writes:
> Intermittently, when using rlogin to connect from one Sun to
> another, the shell (/bin/csh) that is opened on the destination
> machine will interepret any character that is typed as a
> control-D. This leads to the problem of not being able to do
> anything in that shell. This occurs when rlogin-ing from a
> machine running SunOS 4.0 to another machine running 4.0. It
> occurs only on our Sun 3/160's, but not on 3/50's, 3/60's, all of
> which are clients of the 3/160. It also does not happen on a Sun
> 4/260. This problem is intermittent at best, but when it occurs,
> the only solution found so far is to reboot.
We have had this problem here as well, between Sun-3/60s and a Sun-3/260
(all running SunOS 4.0).
The problem seems to be related to ttys not being freed up when something
exits. If you do a w(1), it will list the ttys used and the jobs running
on them. Look for a job name of "-". This is a tty that doesn't really
have a job attached. If you use the cleartty program (available
somewhere, I forget where I got it) to clear that tty (it's probably the
highest numbered pseudo tty), your problem will go away.
Let me know if this helps.
-jan-
--
Jan L. Peterson
UUCP: { ...!utah-cs!caeco | quad1 }!olyis!jlp
Mail: Olympus Software, Inc.; 1333 E 9400 S; Sandy, UT 84093 (USA)
Phone: +1 801 572 1610
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 88 10:47:02 PDT
From: auspex!guy at uunet.uu.net (Guy Harris)
Subject: Re: Better fix for NSTREAMS
1) It should include "mti.h" as well, for ALM boards (NMCP is for ALM-2).
2) It should probably be 4*NZS (each port has two devices - one for
dial-in and one for dial-out) and 33*NMCP (one dial-in, one dial-out
per serial port - I assume the "17" is "16" for the serial ports and "1"
for the parallel port), as well as 32*NMTI (one dial-in, one dial-out
per serial port). Stream heads aren't that expensive, so allocating
some extra ones isn't too bad.
3) The other ones are more complicated. The TTY driver tends not to use
the big ones at all. 4-byte and 16-byte ones are used for input -
4-byte ones if input is coming in slowly, 16-byte ones if it's coming
in faster. 64-byte ones are used for output when OPOST is set; if
you do BMF writes when OPOST is clear, I think the stream head code
will use BMF ones, and the message blocks just get passed down to the
driver without being looked at or modified if OPOST is clear.
It's not clear there's a straightforward formula for this. Using NIT
would blow any such formula out of the water, anyway.
Long term, both stream heads and streams buffers will probably be
dynamically allocated.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 88 13:17:34 PDT
From: auspex!guy at uunet.uu.net (Guy Harris)
Subject: Re: Hardware Flow Control with MTI
>Now for the disclaimer: I've used this on a 3/180, under SunOS 3.0, 3.2,
>3.4, and 3.5. I don't know what will happen under 4.0.
The same thing that happened under all other releases. This really is
*hardware* flow control; it's done by the *hardware*, namely, the
Signetics 2661 EPCI chip (I may have the number wrong, I no longer have
access to the manual). I don't know that Sun software can make it not
work, since you can't tell the chip not to do it.
I've never been sure what people are thinking of when they ask for
"hardware flow control"; do they mean "flow control done by the hardware,
rather than the computer to which the hardware is connected" or do they
mean "flow control done out-of-band by RS-232 signals other than TxD and
RxD, rather than done in-band with ^S/^Q or ETX/ACK or whatever"?
If they mean the former, that's precisely unidirectional RTS/CTS flow
control, so it's not surprising that it worked. The 2661 chip won't let
you turn that *off*; the Zilog (AMD, really, I think) Z8530 chip used on
Sun CPU/SCSI serial ports and MCP/ALM-2 lets you turn it on or off.
Prior releases of SunOS generally didn't let you turn it on (turning it on
also *requires* that you tie CD high, otherwise the receiver shuts off).
The SunOS 4.0 tty driver lets you turn it on.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 88 07:40:43 EDT
From: tim at zorac.dciem.dnd.ca (Tim Pointing)
Subject: Re: 4.0/nfs bug followup
All this talk of problems mixing 3.x and 4.0 with regard to NFS has got me
worrying. I had thought (and had been told so by a Sun sales critter) that
there would be no problem in the following configuration:
A: 3/50 standalone with QIC tape drive OS3.4 (domain X)
B: 3/280 server no tape drive OS3.4 (domain X)
C: 3/280 with 1/2" tape drive OS3.4 (domain Y)
(while both A and B are in the same domain, A doesn't use B except for
exported NFS filesystems and rlogin's)
I wish to upgrade A and B to 4.0. C, which I have no control over, is
going to remain at 3.4 until some of the unbundled & 3rd party s/w is
available for 4.0.
Questions:
(1) I recall hearing that it is not straight forward to use a 3.x remote
tape drive to upgrade to 4.0 (i.e. can I use C's tape drive to
upgrade B or should I upgrade A to 4.0 first and then use its
tape drive to upgrade B?)
(2) Will I have trouble mounting 3.4 filesystems from B on A after A
has been upgraded to 4.0?
(3) Will I have trouble mounting 3.4 filesystems from C on A and B after
A and B have been upgraded to 4.0?
Tim Pointing, DCIEM
tim at zorac.dciem.dnd.ca / tim at zorac.arpa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 88 18:40:55 PDT
From: ahn at violet.berkeley.edu
Subject: Sunflower memory extension boards for 3/50
Sunflower Microsystems introduces SFxMX memory extension boards for Sun
3/50 workstation. The boards can be installed and removed to/from the CPU
board without any modification or soldering, and takes less than ten
minutes. The model SF4MX provides 4 Mbytes extension for Sun 3/50 and the
price start from $2145. For more information, contact:
Sunflower Microsystems
1684 Marco Dr.
San Jose, Ca 95131
FAX# (408) 452-8442
------------------------------
Date: 27 Oct 88 08:24:02 EDT (Thu)
From: n8emr!lwv at sun.com (Larry W. Virden)
Subject: Sun and ksh method needed to get shelltool info
[[ Alternate address: "osu-cis!n8emr!lwv%killer.Central at sun.com" ]]
I have a set of aliases to talk to the shelltool, but do not know how to
write the report aliases/functions properly - here is what I am trying to
do:
ESC='';export ESC
alias -x opentool='echo "$ESC[1t"'
alias -x closetool='echo "$ESC[2t"'
function reporttool
{
#stty raw -echo; echo "$ESC[11t\c" >/dev/tty ;resp=`line`;stty -raw echo
stty raw -echo; echo "$ESC[11t\c" >/dev/tty ;read -r resp;stty echo -raw
#echo "$ESC[11t" >/dev/tty ;resp=`line`
mresp="${resp#??}"
if [ "$mresp" = "1t" ] ; then
echo Open!
elif [ "$mresp" = "2t" ] ; then
echo Closed!
else
echo Oh no!
fi
}
This is a small portion of what I am trying to do. The problem is that I
cannot seem to figure a good way to get mresp set.
Can someone give me some good ideas? I have tried several alternatives,
most either require the user to type a carriage return or echo garbage on
the screen; what I want to do is to be able to get the status info in a
shell variable without the user seeing any noticable effect.
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 88 21:39:00 edt
From: lorraine at msc2.tn.cornell.edu (Peter Lorraine)
Subject: 386i TeX problems
Is there anyone out there who has a working TeX previewer or dvi2ps on a
Sun 386i? I am not a C wizard and have had lots of problems along these
lines. dvitool and texsun both invert letters (well, small letters are
inverted.. big ones are split in four and then each part is inverted).
The rasters generated from the pk fonts are not suitable for the 386i.
Has anyone patched the appropriate routine in texsun? dvi2ps has
produced files that yield nothing when spooled to a laser writer. Any
help would be greatly appreciated.
Peter Lorraine (lorraine at msc2.tn.cornell.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 88 17:05:31 EDT
From: gotham!murphy!borogove!jh at sun.com (John Hanley)
Subject: Request for filter to magnify bitmaps 2X
Anyone with source for a screendump magnifier? Please send to:
hanley at cmcL2.nyu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 88 09:09:21 EDT
From: mike at shogun.cc.umich.edu (Michael Nowak)
Subject: Using a Miniscribe 1335 with an Adaptec 4000 in a Sun 3/50?
We have a Sun 3/50 with an Adaptec 4000 ACB controller. It used to have a
Miniscribe 1325 but the drive became damaged and needed to be replaced.
We have a 1335 in the office which we'd like to use as a replacement. The
1335 is supposed to be similar to the 1325 in most respects. When we
attach it to the controller and run stand/diag, I first get the response
"Bad format on volume" after answering the questions about controller and
drive type (I specify 1325. It has the same number of cylinders, heads,
etc. as the 1335).
When I try to format, the drive makes noises for awhile and then the
software responds with "Unit not ready".
Has anyone had any experience with this configuration? Doers anyone have
information on jumper settings on the Adaptec? Does the drive need to be
formatted at a level lower than stand/diag can provide? Any help, via
E-mail, will be highly appreciated.
--
-- Mike Nowak.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Oct 88 17:59:00 GMT
From: ssc-vax!ray3rd at beaver.cs.washington.edu (Ray E Saddler III)
Subject: Sun 2, tell me about them
I'm interested in finding 'all about the Sun 2' box, specifically, what
type of 3rd party software is available, how well do they perform,
drawbacks and strengths etc...
Please e-mail responses and I'll sumamrize if there is noticable interest.
Thank you - Ray
Ray E. Saddler III | Path: ..!ssc-vax!ray3rd
Boeing Aerospace | From: ray3rd at ssc-vax.UUCP
P.O. Box 3999 m.s. 3R-05 |
Seattle, Wa. 98124 USA | VoiceNet: (206) 657-2824
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 88 16:41:19 EDT
From: berlin%bu-albert.BU.EDU at bu-it.bu.edu (David Fickes)
Subject: NeXT vs. Sun
In the recent announcements and reaction to the NeXT computer quite a few
comparisons to the current Sun machines have been made. Being a fan of
Sun but unable to fairly evaluate the NeXT box on it technical merits, I
thought I push out a few thoughts for your reaction.
1) NeXT "features" are available for Suns. (Optical disks etc..)
2) Software for the NeXT is much more "full-featured" in demanding
higher functionality as "standard features" for all software.
3) Suns can run MACH and therefore... become "MACH" clones to some
degree.
What is the running opinion of the NeXT machines in circles that are
currently using Suns. It seems to me that the NeXT box has quite a
"forward-looking" system... but then I thought of this when I saw my first
Sun system.
Reactions?
[[ Please mail reactions to David. He is willing to summarize and post
the responses. --wnl ]]
- david
David K. Fickes dfickes at bu-albert.bu.edu
The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein ...harvard!bu-it!bu-albert!dfickes
Boston University berlin at buita.bu.edu
745 Commonwealth Avenue - room 541 617/ 353-9249
Boston, MA 02215 617/ 783-4301
------------------------------
End of SUN-Spots Digest
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