VMS <--> Unix mail system (long message : summary).

[Jean Pierre Schiltz]

Some time ago, I was asking for something to exchange mail between VMS and
Unix. I thank everybody who replied. Here is a short summary. 
I hope it will be understandable, and that I will not have inserted too
much mistakes on technical topics (let us not speak about my english, right ?
:-) ).

The first reply I got was :
=================================================================
<<
From: grymoire!barnett at steinmetz.UUCP (Bruce G. Barnett)
Four ways to send mail sun <=> VMS (or more?)

1. Purchase X.400 from Sun and DEC.  (Expensive)
2. Purchase an Ultrix machine with DecNET option as a gateway
3. Purchase Sun's DECNET package and get a public domain program
	that does DECNET mail. This package can send, but
	the receiver can't reply.
4. Get TCP/IP/SMTP on a VMS machine. Some packages are cheaper that others.

We use Exelan and Wollongong for TCP/IP.
There is a public domain package from CarneigyMellon that does TCP/IP.
Called UTEK ( I think). There is also UREP which is available from bitnet
that I think does SMTP on a VMS machine.

we have Ultrix with a decnet optionm and use FTP over DECNET.
We send USENET news thru decnet to another GE-Ultrix site.

Sun's support TCP/IP using SLIP (serial line IP), but this is
	a. public domain
	b. Not available for SunOS 4.0 yet.
	

Guy or Bill Nowicki (nowicki at sun.com) should be able to.

	Bruce G. Barnett 	<barnett at ge-crd.ARPA> <barnett at steinmetz.UUCP>
				uunet!steinmetz!barnett
>>
===================================================================
None of these solutions did fit, since the VMS system is 400 km from the Unix 
system (a long way for an Ethernet cable) ! I wanted to communicate over 
X.25 through an external PAD and asynchronous lines.
I did not investigate the SLIP solution. Maybe I should have ?
Then I received the following suggestion :
===================================================================
<<
From: guy at Sun.COM (Guy Harris)
Might it be possible to run e.g. IP over X.25?  I have heard that X.25 is
cheaper than dial-up async in Europe.  Of course, this requires 
1) that the VAX
and the Sun be able to connect to an X.25 network and 2) that some support for
IP-over-X.25 be provided on both systems; we have some level of IP-over-X.25
support on our machines, but I don't know about VMS or any TCP/IP
implementations for VMS.

You could also run UUCP over X.25, assuming you have support for it in your
UUCP; the standard SunOS one doesn't, but I think Sun Consulting in Germany
offers it.  I can't speak for any VMS UUCPs.
>>
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But this did not give me the IP support over X.25 !
I received then the following proposal :
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<<
>From jensen at gt-eedsp.UUCP Fri Aug  5 05:24:23 1988

If you have SUNLINK software (sunlink-dni),  I would be happy to mail you a
copy of a UNIX-->VMS (notice the one-way arrow) mail program I wrote
that a lot of people are using (dnamail from the rice archive).

P. Allen Jensen
>>
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and this was the missing piece. Unfortunately, I do not have SunLink, and
do not want to buy it at the moment.
I also received the following information, about which I would be happy
to know more :
=================================================================
<<
>From pavlov%hscfvax at harvard.harvard.edu Fri Aug  5 13:47:59 1988

 It is not well-documented (and I can't send you any, because I do not use
 a VMS system), but VMS mail can be initialized to send/receive network mail.
>>
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Who could help ?
Finally, here are the two solutions that worked : one could be used
as an intermediate gateway between uucp and mail, because Clemens Schrimpe
kindly let me send mail through his computer system (tmpmbx). 
=================================================================
<<
From: csch at tmpmbx.UUCP (Clemens Schrimpe)

(...)
We have one, based on X.25 !
(between Unix-X.25 (e.g. Sunlink X.25) and DEC-PSI)

We wrote a DEC-PSI compatible mailer which works fine at our site for
both incoming and outgoing calls! Interest ?

It's definitely NOT bound to any X.25 software (but our own :-) !

But there are certain things, which must be supported by the X.25 Software:
	- ability to have control over packetboundaries (packetsequences)
	- transparency (at least lower 7-bits)

I doubt, that an external PAD will support packet-control !

PSI-Mail is packet-oriented; e.g. it sends the subject of a mail as 
ONE PACKET.
It does not have a 'Subject:' prepended and is not terminated by a '\n' ore
something like this - it's JUST the n'th Packet after opening the connection!
VMS mail is, what Unix mail was 5 years ago. It *normally* doesn't know
about "routing", "domains" and other fancy stuff. Thus the PSI-Protocol is
a little sensation, since it provides mail-facility to unknown destinations.

I've never seen any external PAD being capable of what you need for running
PSI-Mail ... but I'm wondering: You say, you have SUNs running over there?
So - why don't you use SunLink X.25, it costs about $ 2500,- and will need
NO EXTRA HARDWARE - it's pure software and will allow you to port my
PSI-Mail gateway ... :-)

'tmpmbx' is a taiwanese IBM-AT (10Mhz, 4 MB Ram, 160MB-HD, etc.) running
SCO Xenix 2.2.x ... all the X.25 stuff is our own development, since we
sell UNIX-related communications hard- and software. NET-X25 is our X.25
product for PC-based Unixes !

Clemens Schrimpe
UUCP:	csch at tmpmbx.UUCP	{pyramid,unido,altger}!tmpmbx!csch
BITNET:	csch at db0tui6.BITNET	csch at tub.BITNET
PHONE:	+49-30-332 40 15	TELEX:	(066)+186672 net d
PSI:	PSI%026245300043106::CSCH
X.25:	026245300043106 login: chat Password: talkmaster
>>
=================================================================
What is new with this system is that it works fine in both directions, and
not only Unix --> VMS. But it is based on SunLink, so it is not yet what I 
wanted.
I do not know Clemens Schrimpe, and the above should not be considered as
advertisement for his company. 
But he has been very helpful so I have good reasons
to insert all these informations in the current message. I think his 
software is of interest for some people in netland.

The other solution is a direct link, not very sophisticated, but convenient
for what I wanted to do. It is operational here at the moment 
(under beta-test :-) ), and is based on kermit. 
=================================================================
<<
From: steve at txsil.UUCP (Steve McConnel)

we've been using a hacked together setup from the University of Indiana for
some time.  It currently uses Kermit for actual file transport, but that
could probably be replaced by your favorite file transfer program.  I don't
think any of the source code depends on any Unix license, if that's what
you meant by nonacademic sites.
Using sendmail, it works pretty well from the Unix side, but only almost
works from the VMS side.  By this I mean that Unix users can send email to
VMS users without any more effort than normal, and can reply to messages
naturally.  VMS users have to be a lot smarter about what they're doing
because all the mail gets sent to a single VMS account.  A process on Unix
periodically logs into VMS over a tty line, sends any mail which has queued
up, and retrieves any mail which has arrived.
I can send you more details if you're interested.
Stephen McConnel                  PHONE:  214-709-2400 (x2328)
Summer Institute of Linguistics
7500 W. Camp Wisdom Road          UUCP network: steve at txsil.UUCP
Dallas, TX 75236              ...!{convex|mcomp|pollux|smu|utafll}!txsil!steve
>>
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So long, everybody.

Of course, les opinions ci-dessus n'engagent que Jean-Pierre Schiltz et 
en aucun cas la socie'te' Cap Sogeti Innovation ni le groupe 
Cap Gemini Sogeti.
-- 
Jean-Pierre Schiltz - Cap Sogeti Innovation - Centre de Recherche de Paris
118 rue de Tocqueville - 75017 Paris - FRANCE - +33 (1) 46 22 60 27 
schiltz at crp.capsogeti.fr                ...uunet!mcvax!inria!csinn!schiltz