SUMMARY: IBM <-> UNIX Connections (400 lines)

Tue Dec 19 23:53:22 AEST 1989

Dear Netters,

some time ago I sent out a query regarding the link of UNIX machines
and systems to the "IBM world" in these newsgroups - you are reading 
the promised summary.

I was actually interested in software and 
hardware to deal with the channel and not only SNA, but I did not make it
clear and hence got a whole bunch of SNA info as well. 

Thanks you all of you who replied, I hope you don't mind my thanks in list form
because I hate sending out electronic form letters. I want to add, that in
case some companies get mentioned here, this is not an endorsement either by me
or the originator of the article or the company they work for.

I got about 40 replies; some were duplicates and some people posted several
mails: these were the authors...

"Don Ingli" <guug!tumuc!unido!UMCVMB.MISSOURI.EDU!AGRISCS>
<pegasus!hansen>
<tony.austin.ibm.com!dgogates>
Bill Crandall <guug!tumuc!unido!hpda!hpinddf!bc>
Doug Nelson <guug!tumuc!unido!msu.bitnet!08071TCP>
Jeffery Bacon <guug!tumuc!unido!mtus5.bitnet!BACON>
Karl Kleinpaste <guug!tumuc!unido!cis.ohio-state.edu!karl>
Matt Burdick <guug!tumuc!unido!hpda!hpindl1!burdick>
Nick Gimbrone <guug!tumuc!unido!CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu!NJG>
Paul Hahn <guug!tumuc!unido!sequent!paulh>
Peter H\Tkansson <guug!tumuc!unido!vd.volvo.se!peter>
Scott Schwartz <guug!tumuc!unido!shire.cs.psu.edu!schwartz>
bill gunshannon <guug!tumuc!unido!scrvmsys.bitnet!702WFG>
Kodak.COM!messingr (Rich Messinger)
eutrc4.urc.tue.nl!rcjoep (Joep Brand)
gargoyle.uchicago.edu!spanner!mje (Mark J Elkins)
hal.CSS.GOV!baugh (TetherCat 15-0)
ism.isc.com!johnan (John Antypas)
lsuc.on.ca!jim (Jim Mercer)
mips.com!bac (Bruce Clarke - Mgr. Systems Engineering)
nixhhs!andreas (Andreas Wettengel)
convex!harper (David Harper)
mdivax1!sub12c!sandberg (Mischa Sandberg)
sun!hochberg (Yigal Hochberg)
swuts!texbell!umsgmab ([5-7863] Mike Brown)
unify!grp (Greg Pasquariello)
xroads!jerry (Jerry M. Denman)
rosevax.rosemount.com!ghoul (Jon Westbrock)
uts.amdahl.com!kp (Ken Presting)
uunet.uu.net!jeffr (Jeff Radick)
uxh.cso.uiuc.edu!costigan (Steve Costigan)
xlnvax.excelan.com!manoj (manoj @ NOVELL )
larry hughes <guug!tumuc!unido!silver.ucs.indiana.edu!hughes>

I am very grateful for all your help. It is very difficult to get good info
here in W. Germany 

Here is the summary:

There seem to be many products out there...I will try to group them according
to manufacturers. Firstly the big ones and later some smaller ones. I don' t
know if I rate them correctly - I consider ones I have heard of big and the 
rest somewhat smaller...seems fair.

An apt summary is:

"Many vendors provide Unix<-->SNA interfaces of some sort.  Most are
either SNA3270 or SNA/RJE (3770) type interfaces.  But almost all allow
you some sort of access to a programmatic level so that you can write
applications that talk directly to MVS or VM over SNA.  Mips has such
a product as does Sun, HP/Apollo, DEC, etc."

Here it is company by company:

SUN
===
	"We had first purchased Sun's Channel Link board
	and software.  This provided up to 64 sessions with the connections
	defined to VTAM as 3278-2/4 terminals.  The board simulates two
	3174 controllers.  It is channel attached and in general we have 
	had no problems with it.  It is in our main Sun Server and people
	had to telnet into our Sun first before using the connection.  A
	file transfer facility was also included."

"We (Sun) have a TCP/IP solution for VM and MVS. It enables you to talk a full
TCP/IP from your IBM to any other TCP/IP machine including UNIX. We
also have an IP router witch connects Ethernet to FDDI so you can talk
from your VM to a machine that is connected directly to the FDDI. Very
soon a direct connection VM -> FDDI will be available."

     "We also run Sun's SNA product here. It consists of a card that plugs
into one of our Suns, with a direct connect that looks like a channel adapter
to the IBM. Ours has 64 HW addresses reserved for it on the IBM, configured as
3274 terminals. The Sun acts as a server, so any of our other Suns can
access the card. It advertises full SNA/3270 services; we only use the
logon and 3270 IND$FILE file transfer stuff."

IBM
===

"My first response is to ask if you have looked at IBM's TCP/IP for VM
(or MVS, if appropriate).  If not, you should; [...]"

    "IBM can run tcpip software if the box has a controller. Basically
its an industrial grade AT as the gateway. 8512 or something like that."

"You can get TCP/IP (telnet, ftp, nfs server, X) from IBM; mention the
magic number 8232.  There are also non IBM vendors (BTI, Mitek, Intel, etc.)
for VM & MVS.  The TCP/IP box is usually channel attached.  Throughput
varies..."

"There is something called an 8232 that will allow to to link a channel
and a LAN together.  I have seen it used to connect an Ethernet to a
bunch of IBM machines (sorry I am not of that world, and I do not know
what kind of machines they were).  They also sell some software that
will run TCP/IP on the VM box and thus you have the software for
that end.  It can only be connected to one LAN however, but it is
better than nothing I guess."

"... TCP code for Big Blue Iron, at least for VM/CMS (It's FAL-5798, I do
believe - we run it on our 4381). That would also allow ftp, of course.
     There's also NFS code to run under CMS, but we can't get it to work right.
If you really want that, I'd have to suggest an AIX guest."

"Why not ask your friendly IBM sales team for a copy of 5798-FAL and
an 8232 or 3174 (new box) or buy a BTI box from BTI. This software
(and one of any of a number of pieces of hardware, includeing any
of the above list) will put your VM host onto TCP/IP (we do it,
we love it). You may find it possible to then hook into the SNA net
(depending upon what exactly you need do)."

"I think that IBM has TCP/IP availble over a dial-up rs232. (SLIP).  This is
on the RT running AIX V2.2.1.  The mainframe of course would have to support
TCP/IP.

There are several other options that are availble on the RT.  There is a 
product they call EM78 which gives you LU2 display and file xfer.  There is
WHIP which gives you more capabilities.  These 2 options assume that you have
a 3x74 to connect to somewhere close.

There is also full blown SNA on the RT.  It gives you LU2, LU3, LU1 and a 
very rich LU6.2."

HARRIS
======

"If you need more features and greater performance there is a company called
Harris Data Communications in Dallas TX.  Their # is 214-386-2000.  They have
a product call the 9600 which runs SVR3.s and offers 3270 access from terminals
connected to the 9600 and to to those on a TCP/IP net.  They also have high
speed RJE for batch processing.  They 9600 also has a COAX-A option where you
can connect 3279 type terminals. 

The Harris solution is quite pricy, but they offers a complete support
and service package.

Harris also has a product called the 9700.  It basically connects a TCP/IP
network in an IBM mainfram.  It uses SDLC or for high speed can ba channel 
attached.  A nice feature of the 9700 is that with some software on the host
side, people logged into VM from the host terminals gain access to UNIX 
sessions."

AMDAHL & NIXDORF
================

"Amdahl has a version of Unix System V called UTS, which runs on 370-
architecture mainframes and supports SNA channel data links.  You could
run UTS in a VM guest machine and have the best of both worlds.  Nixdorf
and Amdahl have a joint arrangement to market and develop this software."

AT&T
====

	"If you have Sys V ATT 3.2 they have a whole suite of Sna packages
available. They are pretty new but I am using them connecting 1600 386/unix
across the country to a central host. It has been a real experience. The gang
in charge of the SNA stuff went through lots of hell both on the UNIX end
and HOST end. Give ATT a call."

"You might try talking to AT&T.  They have two products, LU6.2 for UNIX to
mainframe communications, and an SNA emulator (I can't recall the name of
the product), that will allow you a terminal session as well as a way of
grabbing incoming, and synthesizing outgoing data."

"Believe it or not, but AT&T has several products on the market for tying
IBM's to UNIX systems, running on both 386 and 3B products."

SCO
===

"The company I work for, SCO ("The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.")
has a product for SCO XENIX and SCO UNIX System V/386 called
"uniPATH SNA-3270" that provides a 3270 terminal emulation.  Well,
actually, it emulates a 3274 terminal cluster controller hooked up
to the 37x5 by an SDLC line, plus provides emulation of the 3278
terminals as well.  It also supports file transfer using the host
program called "IND$FILE".

Note that this differs from the "tn3270" program available on BSD
any many other TCP/IP implementations in that it does not communicate
with the host program using TCP/IP, but rather with SNA/SDLC.

For more information about our product, please consult one of our
marketing types (which does not include me, I'm an engineer).
A reasonable place to start is to talk to a guy named John Harker
(uunet!sco!johnha).  Our phone # is (408)425-7222."

MITEK
=====

"Mitek Systems makes a product which will act as a gateway between Unix systems
and IBM mainframes running SNA.  On the Unix side, the connection is through
an ethernet link running TCP/IP protocols.  On the IBM side the connection is
made in one of two ways.  The local version of the product (M2000) directly
connects to the I/O channel and handles block mode (high speed) transfers.  I
don't know if they support data streaming yet on the M2000, but if not, they
are working on it.  The other version of the product (M2100) is designed for
remote attachment to the mainframe and communicates over a high speed SDLC
link; I think rates up to 56K baud are supported on this one.  Only difference
between the two units from a user's viewpoint (on the Unix box) is that the
M2100 has slower response due to the serial link to the mainframe.  The two
systems support things like file transfer, RJE, etc.  All translation from 
SNA to TCP/IP is done within the Mitek unit.  For further information contact:

                           Mitek Systems Corp
                           2033 Chennault Dr.
		           Carrollton, TX 75006
                           (214) 490-4090

[...]
For what it's worth, my current company manufactures supercomputers which run
Unix and have an ethernet connection.  They picked Mitek as the vendor of choice
when they needed connectivity to the IBM world."

"Try Mitek us phone (214)490 4090 talk to david gentry.
They have a channel attached unit AND tcp/ip to VM + representative in
suisse.
We use their units on sdlc line but i assume it works ok on channels..."

SSI
===

"SSI (Software Strategies Inc.) offers packages for LU2 and LU6.2.
The LU2 is mostly for 3270 terminal emulation, but has an API
and "raw" mode, so that you can connect a transaction program to
what CICS thinks is a terminal. Sigh. The LU6.2 stuff is okay,
except that conversation start-up cost is a Unix fork-exec."

"Actually, what works for ISC is a product from System Stratigies Inc.
They make an intelligent board which does SNA, X.25 or Bysync and
runs under our 386/ix Unix V.3.2/V.4 OS.  It impliments full packet
transparancy for X.25 and application gateways for SNA as well as LU and
3270 support."

JOINER
======

"[...] But one possible solution might be JNET from Joiner
Associates.  I know it works on VMS on a VAX and lets it talk to our
4381 running VM/CMS.  It is apparently the basis for BITNET and I am
pretty sure there are UNIX systems on BITNET too.  You might try getting
in touch with them and asking more specific questions.

Joiner Associates Inc.                       Phone: (608) 238-8637
3800 Regent Street                           TELEX: 650 110-6813
PO Box 5445                                  FAX:   (608) 238-2908
Madison, Wisconsin
53705-0445 USA"

FIBRONICS
=========

	"We have recently put TCP/IP directly on our IBM system using
	hardware/software from Fibronics.  It also connects right to the 
	channel and also to the ethernet.  Software runs on the VM host and
	any ascii<->ebcdic translation is done on the VM host.  It gives us
	a wide variety of telnet connection options and supports standard
	ftp connections.  telnet and ftp are bidirectional and works here."

INTERLINK
=========

	"Another vendor I just remembered is Interlink Computer Sciences.
	They use a microVAX as the hardware platform but use the IBM code.  The
	advantage with them is that they also have DECnet capabilities with
	the same hardware at the same time."

RABBIT
======

"One strictly communications vendor providing SNA connectivity is Rabbit
Software.  They run on several platforms and have a pretty good reputation.
They can be contacted at 1-800-RABBITC."

MORNING STAR
============

"There is a company here in the USA (right here in my town) called
Morning Star Technologies which sells a variety of X.25, BSC, and SNA
products.  You might wish to get in touch with them.  Try directing a
query to kim at MorningStar.COM or karl at MorningStar.COM."

PUBLIC DOMAIN/BERKELEY or NET STUFF
===================================

"1) Put TCP/IP on your IBM host and use tn3270 (public domain 3270 emulator)
and NFS."

     "Well....depends on what you want. If you just want terminal service,
and you have a local TCP/IP-based net, you could use Berkeley's tn3270
code on the Unix boxes. We use it here, and it works fine."

Once again, thank you all of you for your help. I wish you all a merry
Christmas and a happy new year.

Love,
Snoopy

-- 
uunet!unido!ixos!snoopy -or- snoopy at ixos.uucp
"Every passing hour brings the solar system 43,000 miles closer to globular
cluster M13 in Hercules - and still there are some misfits who insist that
there is no such thing as progress." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr.