VMesS vs Unix Debate

[Creedence? I *love* Creedence...]

Re: VMesS vs Unix Debate_______________________________________________________

	Again, I have to correct a few misstatements.  I'm presenting facts,
not flames, so please take them with that in mind.  Also, I'm presenting these
as a knowledgable user of VMS, not as a DEC employee.

>> And VMS has EDT.
> This is not a bad editor so long as you promise never to use another terminal
> not blessed by DEC.

	I'm no big fan of EDT, myself.  I know it's extensible, though; if you
don't have a VT52 or VT100 keypad, you can program the keys you do have.  As
for the screen handling, I believe you're right that EDT's limited.  But a lot
of terminals out there are VT100 clones, and it works just fine.

> You also can't run system commands (like grep, sort, etc.) from within the
> editor which is a standard practice with Unix editors.

	Unipress EMACS runs on VMS and can do all those things.  There are a
number of other editors that run on VMS (such as TECO) which are also very pow-
erful.

> I want to run a job to compile my code.  It takes about 5 minutes so I want
> to run it in the background with my error messages going to a file.
> ...
> With VMS, I have to go into that wonderful EDT editor and write a DCL command
> procedure that reassigns SYS$OUTPUT to a file and submits my compile to the
> proper batch queue.  The average user will probably not be able to send a
> completion message back to the terminal although he/she could send a mail
> message.  This whole mess shouldn't take more than 10 minutes assuming that
> the user is familiar with the 10 volume VMS manual set.  I can now execute
> the command procedure to compile my job in the background.  Not only is this
> wasted time, but it has distracted me from my intended purpose which is to
> develop software.

	Instead of familiarizing yourself with the VMS manual set, you should
have used online HELP.  There you could easily see that

	    $ SPAWN/NOWAIT/OUTPUT=file your-command

would do exactly what you want.  This doesn't notify you when it's done, but
one can work around that very easily.
	Or you could run it in batch.  This requires a command file, yes, but
unless you write perfect code every time, you'll use that file more than once.
And it doesn't take long to write a three-line command file, regardless of what
editor you use.  Submitting it is as simple as

	    $ SUBMIT/LOG_FILE=file/NOTIFY command-file

The /LOG_FILE puts your error messages in a file.  The /NOTIFY tells you when
it's done.

	Finally, all VMS compilers have a /LIST=file switch that puts error
messages in a file along with the source.

	Now, you may prefer tokens like `>&' and such over qualifiers like
/OUTPUT; I agree, somewhat:  they save typing.  They *are* cryptic, though, and
the naive user might find English words easier.  Anyways, frequently-typed com-
mands can be replaced with command symbols.

>> One can always run a Unix emulator under VMS for users who prefer Unix.
> I've used Eunice under VMS and it has a lot of problems.

	DEC/Shell works very well.  It makes a lot of Unix utilities available
to VMS users.  (Then again, many of those utilities were already made available
with DECUS C, as mentioned before.)  And as a spinoff, VMS can now use pipes.
		<_Jym_>

:::::::::::::::: Jym Dyer
::::'  ::  `:::: Nashua, New Hampshire
::'    ::    `::
::     ::     :: DYER%VAXUUM.DEC at DECWRL.ARPA
::   .::::.   :: {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxuum!dyer
::..:' :: `:..::
::::.  ::  .:::: Statements made in this article are my own; they might not
:::::::::::::::: reflect the views of |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| Equipment Corporation.