group rw on /usr/mail files IS OK because the group is mail. I overlooked that when I got concerned last night. I still think of things in a VMS way. Thanks to the two people below for reminding me of that. Jit Keong Tan | internet: jit at slic.cellbio.duke.edu brendan at illyria.wpd.sgi.com John yates at a.chem.upenn.edu