Unbundling - we all do it, so let's stop complaining

[Eric Varsanyi]

This is it, I can't sit here and take this anymore. I've delt with Bell Tech
a few times now and received nothing but slime in return. If you don't
like flaming, hit n now...

In article <249 at belltec.UUCP> dar at belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) writes:
>>  o  Bell Tech unbundles the license, the media, and the manuals; does not
>>     provide DWB.
>
>Wrong.  We sell it for $45.

Unsupported and very reluctantly, if you ask a sales person they will tell you
they do not sell the DWB. If you press you find out you can get it AS IS,
good luck.

>> fees to AT&T easier.  Bell Tech sells Unix (with their drivers) at almost
>> their cost because they hope to sell you their hardware and make up for the
>> low price that way.
>
>Wrong.  We sell UNIX cheap for the same reason we helped Microport get started.

I'd love to hear how Bell Tech helped get uPort started, I havn't heard this
story yet.

>We think a solid, non-proprietarized UNIX sponsored by Intel and AT&T which is
>sold for the same price as DOS helps everyone in the UNIX market (except maybe

You get floppies and documentation with DOS.

>those companies that have an ax to grind keeping it proprietarized and over-

Like companies that burn new proms for their tape drives so their software
can detect if its being used on another vendors h/w and refuse to work?

>priced).  We make a lot more money from software value added than hardware.

I thought you guys sold Unix from AT&T/Intel untouched... wheres the value added
part? Would it be possible that the value added stuff is only applicable on
hardware purchased from BT?

>>   o  Support for non-standard (ST-506 interface) MFM, ESDI, and RLL drives
>
>******* This is pure idiocy.  You seem to forget, my friend, that it was Bell
>Technologies that first put RLL and ESDI support into Microport.  The Intel/AT&T
>release has the best non-ST-506, non-MFM, disk support of any release around.

THIS IS PURE CRAP!!!!! Bell Tech will NOT sell you an RLL driver unless you
buy their RLL drive (suprise). Current uPort RLL/ESDI support is from uPort
directly, I know since I worked on it. It is not marred by any contact with
BT nor does it require their 'custom' hardware. Neither does it require a
Bell Tech AT clone with special entries in the ROM BIOS. On a final note,
Bell Tech informed me that they no longer support Microport, so now you
have to buy their hardware exclusively if you want to run their software.

>>   o  Tape backup that works with standard Everex or Wangtek 60 & 125 Mb tape
>>      drives (not just Bell Tech's own - ask them, their driver is designed
>>      to only work with their drives)
>****** Again, there are third parties supporting this (no less than AT&T!),
>we support our own products to keep the support bandwidth down.  And what's
>wrong with that? How much time have you spent today supporting SCO or 386/ix?.

Well, at least he didn't contradict himself in the same sentence.  If you
don't support other vendors then stop bragging about the "RLL" support you
put into uPort (hah).

I think the key word above is support. Microport supports their stuff (maybe
not as well as some might like). Bell Tech sells AT&T stuff and definitely
does not support it. I asked what the scenario would be if I found a bug
in, say, shl and the sxt driver. (Not that I would ever use those :) )
I think the best response I got was that if I bought a (expensive) service
contract, they would let me talk to their techs (who handle hardware as well)
for something like 4 hours. Their problem solving ability is limited to
reporting the bugs to AT&T. They cannot, and will not fix code. I assume
the situation is different with their in house device drivers. uPort,
on the other hand, actually has people who understand Unix and are
willing to fix problems, and they have source from AT&T so they CAN
fix problems. They are not driven by hardware marketing, rather, they want
their software to be successful, they have a vested interest in seeing that
their stuff runs on as many different configurations as possible, not just
in house brands.
>
>>   o  A 30 day Installation Support and Money Back warranty - if it doesn't
>>      work for any reason, send it back for a refund
>****** Same here.  Our usual money back is 7 days, but we'll extend it to  30
>days if anyone asks.  We charge half price, by the way, for any UNIX license
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^
	 Read: You have to flame at the sales manager. I asked if maybe 7
         days wasn't just a little ridiculous. The salesperson was as unmoving
	 as a granite wall.

>us all.  Before you flame at Intel/AT&T too much you should acknowledge your
>debt to them for putting you in business and helping you stay there.

Please! Everyone has to pay the license fees. We all keep AT&T in business
(the Unix business anyway). I don't think John was flaming Intel/At&T
either. I think he flaming a company who is interested in selling hardware
and couldn't sell the stuff for enough money in the DOS world, so they
snag a copy of the ISC port and sell at rock bottom prices. The only
catch is you have to use their devices and their device drivers ($$$)..

>
>Regards, 
>
>Dimitri Rotow

Don't for a second think that BT is in the s/w business. I while back I posted
asking about X windows. This was after a lot of mumbo jumbo hand waving
from Dimitri about their X support. I asked if BT would sell X windows
to run on uPort unix with a Hercules or EGA card. He said they would, and you
even got floppies (a change from their normal bait-and-switch tactics)and
documentation. All for $95.

Good luck, their sales people claim adamantly that they only support
BT unix, and that they have dropped all support for uPort. AND, the
herc stuff is all unsupported even on BT unix. Sigh. Althoug, if you
buy their blit card they will be happy to support you. BT is obviously 
a software driven company, anyone can see that.

I typically don't flame on like this, but this BT stuff was just
getting under my skin. I have had pretty good luck with uPort,
their stuff still has some problems, but at least they have some
incentive to fix them.

-Eric Varsanyi
 Cray Research