Support matters

[Karl Denninger]

[Sorry, there is some flame in here.... Couldn't be helped]

In article <402 at uport.UUCP> plocher at uport.UUCP (John Plocher) writes:
>>                                                          I tried calling you
>>the very next day.  You were in a meeting.  And the day after, you were also
>>in a meeting.  Now knowing, full well that people in California are either in
>>a meeting or at lunch, I found it reassuring at that at least you were in the
>>building.
>
>#$%$#@#$ meetings!  I'd rather be at lunch. :-() munch munch ...
>
>I'm new here at Microport; meetings are one of the only ways I have of
>"learning the ropes".  Sorry if I can't always jump when the phone rings,
>but if I'd spend all my time on the horn I couldn't get anything *else* done.

Ok... that's reasonable... but now on to my question:

Did you get my email?  If so, why haven't I received a response?  If not, I
will include the basic ideas expressed there in this posting.... 

>History, not an excuse:
>	Locus did Dos Merge for us.  They kept shipping us "pre release"
>	versions.  The decision was made (for better or worse) to ship 
>	the stuff and to upgrade users when the real thing became avaliable.

And you did THE EXACT SAME THING with SV/286's DOSMERGE a year or so back.
Remember that?  And remember just how horrid of a mess THAT was?  I do.  We
did a FULL beta write-up, FULL beta testing, and we weren't even on the "top
of the list" when you began shipping the "real" beast!  Hell, the beta could
be induced to panic within five minutes of booting!

Yes, I paid full price for my BETA copy as well.

What you didn't tell your SV/286 MERGE customers is that their "DOS" session
would run slower than a decent XT, and that loading MERGE would make the
serial ports unusable at anything over 300 baud!  Needless to say, this 
"solution" is completely, 100% USELESS for any real work.  (Yes, we reported
these things -- they didn't get fixed in the "real" release -- although the
serial port problem was acknowleged as UNFIXABLE!).  We also never received 
a link kit for the MERGE system -- something that was PROMISED to us (and we 
are entitled to -- we HAVE AN UPGRADE CONTRACT).

Given your prior experience with DOS/MERGE for the '286, you have NO EXCUSE
for doing what you did with the '386 DOSMERGE product.  You *knew* from
experience that Locus might do something as you have described....

>	V/386 DosMerge 1.1 (The *real thing*, not a Pre Release) is in
>	final engineering (Monday it starts QA)  As soon as I approve it,
>	it will go into production and out to our customers.
>
>	It is based on Unix V/386 ver 3.0, and will be handled as an
>	upgrade package:
>
>		Those with Upgrade contracts will have V/386 and DM
>		shipped to them automatically.
>
>		Those w/o an upgrade contract must purchase the Unix upgrade
>		from V/386 2.2 to V/386 3.0; the DM upgrade is free.
>
>		Contact your sales rep for details.

THIS is horrible.

First, you sell a beta at full price.  THEN you want *MORE* money to make it
work (you've decided to make it incompatible with what the people HAD TO USE 
IT WITH in your first release).

To be ethical you should either:
	
	1) Have told your beta customers that this was going to occur (they 
 	   were going to be asked for yet more money to get a working 
	   version).... or
	2) Ship the FULL UPDATE without ANY CHARGE (this means no $20
	   handling charge either) to ALL YOUR BETA SITES.  If your decision
	   to make this version work with V3.0 rather than V2.2 causes
	   people to be "hosed", you should take responsibility for it.  
	   Period.

Of course, if you had taken path #1 no one would have paid their good money
for the beta copy -- and you'd have had a real problem.  The second path
costs your company real money -- but it's how ethical companies do things in
the real world.

>	GHC/386 is avaliable now - call your sales rep and ask for it.
>	it will also be shipping standard with 3.0.

But you've been claiming that it (as well as DOSMERGE) was FOR REAL now for
SIX MONTHS, and that GHC/386 was INCLUDED!  Give me a break!  I'm glad we 
didn't try to order it -- we would have had to pay out even *more* money for 
yet another piece of vapor.

In some circles, what you are doing would be considered fraud (advertising
one thing, delivering another -- or delivering a product missing part of what 
was advertised as being INCLUDED, then requiring that an "upgrade contract"
be purchased to get the REST OF WHAT YOU PROMISED IN THE FIRST PLACE.)

>	If *some* of you want to help with a "real" beta, send me mail.
>	This means being willing and able to provide in depth testing
>	on various hardware platforms and with different environments.
>	Timeframe is soon, duration < 2 weeks; quantity is *small*.  I
>	want quality beta testers, not quantity.  I know we all are tired
>	of Pre Releases and Betas and whathaveyou, so my requirements are
>	stiff:

Microport had this from us.  We SERIOUSLY evaluated the SV/286 DOSMERGE
beta.  We reported our bugs as well as our success -- in WRITING.  We still 
get (and got) NO support.  Why would I offer to do this again, ESPECIALLY
when you want our good money to BETA TEST your product for you?   MOST
companies provide beta software either FREE or at a GREATLY reduced cost.
Microport doesn't.  I prefer to not dig in that can of worms again.

Look.  Your SV/386 may be a good product.  We even had it loaded on a
machine here.  I found a few nasties in the installation (read: it doesn't
work if you try to set the interleave), and GAVE UP.  Your company's prior 
record on support issues convinced me to not waste my time or money calling
your "support" line -- so we went to SCO Xenix.  

We're not sorry -- SCO really DOES ship what they say they will, and most of 
the time it's shipped on time -- even when their "on-time" is a projection
of future availability.


This, however, is not what I am upset about.

We, at MCS, purchased your SV/*286* product over a year and a half ago.  We
STILL GOT A BETA.  We have an upgrade contract.  We've never received a
THING that we didn't yell, piss, holler and scream about for weeks first.
We've never been notified of ANY fixes.  And the ##$#!@% serial ports DONT
WORK -- A YEAR AND A HALF LATER.

Quite simply, we were lied to.  Bald-faced style.  When we originally placed 
the order we were quite up-front with the sales people about our intended use
(heavy communications and the like).  We were told "no problems known at
present".  Uh huh.

Well, I still have a panicy SV/286 package here.  I've received ZERO support
from your organization on this matter.  Hell -- they wanted MY HARDWARE out
there a few months back for some "tests" -- at MY EXPENSE!  And we're not
alone.  Two customers and several friends have the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS.

John -- there is NOTHING WRONG with my hardware.  Xenix works (and is
working) flawlessly on the EXACT SAME HARDWARE.

I think it's time you REALLY did something about this, since you have taken
it upon yourself to proclaim that you are the "No bullshit" person at Uport.

Here's what we feel we have paid for, and what we expect:

o A WORKING SV/286 RELEASE.  That means no more panics from the serial
  driver, and NO MORE LOST CHARACTERS at reasonable loads.  Darn it John, 
  we have sent in the EXACT PANIC LOCATION several times to your organization.
  Do you mean you can't fix your OWN DRIVERS?  No less than THREE TIMES have
  I been given a "fix" that should have stopped the blow ups.  Not ONCE has
  it had ANY EFFECT AT ALL.  While you are at it, fix the frigging 'fsck'
  problem that blows filesystems away larger than about 120kblocks (is this
  one fixed yet?  No one ever told us if so.... nor have we been updated).

  If you cannot provide this, in a reasonable time-frame, I expect your firm
  to refund our money (and anyone else who asks).  This software is USELESS
  to us in it's present form.  Your company was advised of our use for said
  software, and made the statement that it WOULD WORK.  It doesn't.  You are
  STILL selling this piece of trash (God help those poor dupes who buy it).

o An upgrade.  Once.  Without calling a few thousand times first.  Either
  that, or refund the money you took from us for the "upgrade contract"
  since you have NEVER ONCE PROVIDED AN UPDATE UNDER THIS AGREEMENT, even
  though said updates ARE AVAILABLE IF YOU BITCH REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU
  HAVE AN AGREEMENT.

Look.  You've come on pretty strong here the last two weeks or so.  I've
read a LOT of blathering.  I haven't received an answer to my email.  Why
is that?  Did you really not receive it?  It didn't bounce....

Or is it possible that there really will be *NO CHANGE* in the way your
company conducts business.  That you will continue to ship betas without
telling people, then charge them AGAIN to upgrade to a version which works.
That you will continue to misrepresent what your company KNOWS TO BE TRUE
both on the phone and on the net.  And that your support department will
continue to tell people on the phone that their hardware must be responsible
for all the crashes and other problems...

John, we're tired of the bull.  We're tired of having to tell customers that
what they're buying from us is CRAP -- and that we *cannot* support it here
due to vendor-induced bugs.  We were partners in this business once upon 
a time.... 

But we've been taken advantage of and now we're PISSED OFF.

At MCS we pride ourselves on our service and customer support.  That's why
we are still in business -- because we SUPPORT, 100%, ALL OF THE PRODUCTS WE
SELL.  PERIOD. (Ask our customers -- that's why they buy from us).  We *EAT*
our mistakes -- as do most ethical companies.  Under your present set of 
conditions, we CANNOT PROVIDE this service if someone buys your software 
from us.  This means we cannot sell your software -- because in our opinion 
your support services and policies are *UNACCEPTABLE* (ditto for your sales
staff's level of product knowledge).

We are an ethical company.  We don't sell things that are known to be
broken.  We don't lie to people.  And we get VERY pissed off when a vendor
lies to us.  Microport has done this more times than I have appendages.

Will Microport respond?  Will things ACTUALLY CHANGE with you there?  Or
will you simply spew your rhetoric onto the net, in the hopes that a few
more suckers will ante up for disaster?  

If you want to "oil" this squeaky wheel, show us working software.  That's
all we ever wanted, and all we paid for.  I believe we are entitled to either
working software, or a full refund (including all the $20 shipping charges
we've paid -- heck, you may as well have shipped bricks in the box!)

I'll be looking for our *WORKING* SV/286 and SV/386 versions in our UPS 
deliveries.  Why don't I really expect to find anything from your firm?

We're waiting for the "great changes" to be shown to us, as part of the 
outside world.  All we've seen so far is blathering on the net. It's your 
ball John.  Put up or shut up -- please.

Response(s) appreciated.  Our lines, and email boxes, are open and waiting. 

--
Karl Denninger (ddsw1!karl) Data: (312) 566-8912, Voice: (312) 566-8910
Macro Computer Solutions, Inc.    "Quality solutions at a fair price"