Repost and summary : diskless workstations (long)

[Erwin Eder]

Original Subject: Booting diskless PC/AT-workstations from UN|X via ethernet


This is a complete list of all answers :

+++++++++++++++++++++ My request was: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ >
+ >Can anybody out there help me with the following questions :
+ >
+ >	Configuration :
+ >		o) UNIX mini with SYS-V,TCP-IP, NFS
+ >		o) Diskless PC/AT-style workstations
+ >
+ >	Questions :
+ >		1) Is it possible to boot MS-DOS on the PC's
+ >		   from the UNIX mini via ethernet?
+ >		2) What is the hardware/software needed
+ >			a) on the UNIX mini ?
+ >			a) on the pc workstation ?
+ >
+ >Please e-mail me your comments.
+ >
+ >				Many thanx in advance
+ >					Erwin Eder
+ >
+ >
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Here is a complete list of answers to my request:
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RE:> From: Brad Clements <tuvie!omnigate.clarkson.edu!bkc>
RE:> 
RE:> You can obtain a BootP server via anonymous ftp from
RE:> 	lancaster.andrew.cmu.edu  from pub/bootp.2.0.tar
RE:> 
RE:> 
RE:> Here at Clarkson, we have developed an EPROM for Micom Interlan NI5210's
RE:> that allow them to boot from any unix system running BootP and tftp.
RE:> This software could easily support other types of ethernet cards, its
RE:> quite modular. On the 5210 version, it also checks the ethernet card
RE:> and reports on shorts or opens in the ethernet line and how far away
RE:> they are.  
RE:> 
RE:> Unfortuneately the client software is not freely distributable. Clarkson
RE:> intends to sell Eproms, or license the software  for a small fee.
RE:> 
RE:> We based the client code on stanford's client bootp for sun machines,
RE:> which you can get from safe.stanford.edu  in the file  pub/bootp.client.shar
RE:> 
RE:> Hope this helps.
RE:> 
RE:> 
RE:> | Brad Clements          bkc at omnigate.clarkson.edu        bkc at clgw.bitnet 
RE:> | Network Engineer       Clarkson University              (315)268-2292

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RE:> From: <tuvie!cs.williams.edu!rbw>
RE:> 
RE:> The card has to take over the boot sequence, interposing itself twixt
RE:> the floppy check and the hard disk boot.  IBM did this with the PCNetwork
RE:> cards, and the TRN II cards, but I haven't heard of anyone doing it for 
RE:> ethernet.
RE:> 
RE:> -Rich

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RE:> From: <tuvie!belltec!lance>
RE:> 
RE:> Hello!
RE:> 
RE:> A Seagate 20MB hard disk lists for around $200 US.  Every PC/AT comes with a 
RE:> hard disk controller.  Ethernet/NFS does not have the guaranteed, consistent
RE:> performance of even a slow disk like the Seagate.  
RE:> 
RE:> Conclusion: Diskless workstations are obsolete, except for secure environments.
RE:> 
RE:> Diskless workstations were a great idea 5 years ago, and if you're paying
RE:> list prices for SUN Micro hardware, they're still cost-effective.  But,
RE:> the big SUN users are now shopping for cheap third-party SCSI hard disks
RE:> for their large diskless workstation clusters, to free up the Ethernet for
RE:> real work.
RE:> 
RE:> There is a distribution of the BOOTP protocol.  This has a UNIX server program
RE:> for downloading images, and several clients in C for VMEbus cards.  It should
RE:> be a simple programming exersize to port this into a PC-AT Ethernet card
RE:> boot ROM.
RE:> 
RE:> Streamlined Networks is a UNIX Network software developer.  We have TCP/IP
RE:> and NFS products for UNIX and XENIX on 386 machines.  If you would like to
RE:> discuss this further, please send me mail or fax.
RE:> 
RE:> Thank You,
RE:> 
RE:> Lance Norskog
RE:> VP Engineering
RE:> Streamlined Networks
RE:> P.O. Box 14763
RE:> Fremont, CA  94539
RE:> 
RE:> uunet!belltec!lance
RE:> phone: USA 415-659-1450
RE:> fax: USA 415-659-9765

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RE:> From: <tuvie!ihlpf!trdill>
RE:> 
RE:> I think you should be able to do this. My experience has been
RE:> with Cimlinc Unix workstations and more recently Sun
RE:> workstations, but I think the general principles should work
RE:> for your situation.
RE:> 
RE:> All the steps require that you have one of the systems up and
RE:> running and that you can connect to it via the network.
RE:> 
RE:> 1. Get the Internet number from the source (working system).
RE:> 	Unix command netname,hostid, whatever based on Unix
RE:> 	version idiosyncracy.
RE:> 2. At some point (called prom monitor on the systems I
RE:> serviced) you should be able to modify the boot source
RE:> address. This is some register that holds the source address
RE:> for the boot device (floppy,hard disk,magtape,network). You
RE:> will need to know what to change this to so that the source is
RE:> the network.
RE:> 
RE:> 3. The systems I serviced then prompted for the
RE:> Internet/ethernet number of the source machine. with this
RE:> entered the down machine pulled boot off the source machine.
RE:> If you wanted to go from there you could boot in any number of
RE:> diagnostics or disk maintenance type things. This was
RE:> accomplished by entering the internet/ethernet number followed
RE:> by a colon and the path to the fiel that you needed.
RE:> 
RE:> 
RE:> Again my experience has been primarily with Cimlinc and Sun
RE:> workstations but I see no reason why something like this could
RE:> not be done with your PC's.

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Comments :

o) I have no access to anonymous FTP from here (sigh)
o) Harddisks may be cheap, but in an industrial environment
   they would not survive for a long time.
o) Many thanx to everyone who sent me his ideas/solutions

Please send me more e-mail concerning this topic.

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|  /      \  <-- this is |  and this    uunet!mcvax!tuvie!atbull!ee   |
|   \____/       a tree. |  is me -->     In-Real-Life Erwin Eder     |
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