Summary: VMS->Ultrix transition

[sbbur%CONNCOLL.BITNET at cunyvm.cuny.edu]

I recently solicited suggestions on making the transition from VMS to
Ultrix.  Connecticut College currently has a MicroVAX II running Ultrix
and a VAX/8350 running VMS.  We are planning to switch to Ultrix on the
8350 and eliminate the MVII.

The following summarizes the responses I received.  Thanks to all who responded.

> ... swap the machines as an interim step before you eventually dump
> the MVII... that would put most users on the faster machine, and make
> it more attractive for the users who are using VMS to switch to Ultrix
> while not feeling that they are getting their arms twisted into
> switching.

        We've considered this.  The expense of transferring software
        licenses (VMS, SPSSx, SAS, Minitab) would be our main reason not
        to do it.  Also, we've only been a VMS shop for 12-18 months, and
        being a liberal arts school, we haven't developed a "hard-core"
        VMS user base.

>  ... consider switching to 4.3BSD-Tahoe UNIX instead of Ultrix as you
> can probably save a considerable amount of money in yearly licensing
> fees to DEC.

        If we'd have planned ahead a few years ago, that'd be an option
        to give serious consideration.  However, I understand that
        BSD4.3 will NOT run on a VAX/8350.  The 8350 has a dual-processor
        CPU which is not supported by BSD4.3.

> ... there is a product called "Eunice" which allows BSD look-alike
> commands to run under VMS.

> Try EUNICE from The Wollongong Group ...

        We considered EUNICE when we first purchased the 8350 and the
        MVII.  At the time we were concerned about efficiency and
        compatibility.  Now, I think I'd rather try to find a DCL-like
        shell for UNIX than keep VMS around that much longer.

> There are two VMS-like Shells for Unix.  Dcl8 is sold by Accelr8; VCL is
> sold by Boston Business Computing.  In addition, both of these companies
> sell a Edt-like editor to run in the Unix environment.
>
>       Accelr8                         Boston Business Computing
>       303 East 17th Avenue            Riverwalk Centre
>       Suite 108                       360 Merrimack Street
>       Denver, CO  80203               Lawrence, MA  01843
>       (303)863-8008 (voice)           (508)683-7920 (voice)
>       (303)860-0742 (FAX)             (508)686-8658 (FAX)

> We've got VCL on our Sun's for the VMS types ... VCL is the perfect
> example of a transition shell, i.e. it's got just enough inconsistencies
> with DEC/VMS to annoy the VMSer's into switching to UNIX, but not enough
> that they can say "I can't use this machine".

> As a developer spending nearly equal time on both SysV and VMS, I
> highly recommend *NOT* trying to emulate DCL on the Ultrix system.  What
> I feel is important is to use the command processor best suited to the o/s.
> If you emulate DCL in the Ultrix environment, your users will never
> learn to the use the Shell; and, the Shell is far better suited to
> exploit the strengths of Unix.

> For the transition period, set up a new directory for VMS commands
> called, say, /usr/vmsbin, and place it at the head of the search path
> for all users ...  In this directory, place a small shell script for
> each of the commands commonly used under VMS.  DON'T, however, have that
> command call the equivalent Unix command -- if you do this, it will only
> confuse the users, and they will never get weaned off of VMS.  Instead,
> have the script just print a short message to stderr describing ways to
> do the intended operation under Unix.

        We plan to investigate Dcl8 and VCL further.  I've already
        contacted Boston Business Computing and the prices for VCL and
        their EDT-like editor are the same.  They each range from $495 on a
        VAXSTATION 2000 to $3995 on a VAX 6320.

        We are more likely to go along with the last suggestion.  The
        number and sophistication of our VMS users is such that guiding
        them to the appropriate Unix command will probably be
        sufficient.  I'd hope they'd get the hang of Unix in just a
        few sessions.  There are probably less than a dozen commands
        used on a regular basis.  We also plan to offer some Unix workshops
        over the summer and early next semester.

> We have EDT+ from Boston Business Computing on our systems.  It is very
> close to the real EDT.  Our VMS users love it.

> There is an EDT editor for unix.  It is called "EDT+", and it is put out
> by Boston Business Computing. ... I find that the only think that users
> complain about is their inability to deal with text editors on different
> operating systems.  Supplying your VMS users with EDT will most likely be
> all they need.

> Boston Business Computing has two packages that you might be interested
> in:  VCL, which is a VMS DCL emulator and EDT+, which is EDT for Unix.
> ... our VMS sysadmins were impressed with EDT+.

> I would recommend evaluating the EDT product from Boston Software Works.
> It is a very good EDT look-alike (even supporting init files.) ... I
> don't think your average user will find learning emacs (or vi) trivial -
> better perhaps to give them a familiar editor so they can be productive
> right away, then gradually force them to become familiar with one of the
> native editors.

> As far as other editors go, I prefer jove.  It is an emacs clone with
> all the nice features of emacs without the elisp.  It is small--the
> latest version is about 220K as compared to vi which is about 145K as
> compared to the GNUemacs which is about 660K stripped. Jove gives you
> all the text editing and command completion features of emacs, stuff
> that at least I find really important in an editor.  You probably don't
> want to run GNUemacs unless you have lots and lots of memory.

        Most of our VMS users use EVE (EDIT/TPU) as opposed to EDT.  We
        will probably look at some flavor of emacs and plan on defining
        some standard function key assignments to help the users.  Emacs
        and all those control/escape sequences can be a bit confusing.


Thanks again to everyone who responded.

Scott Burdick                           BITNET:  sbbur at conncoll
Manager of Computer Operations
   and Technical Support
Connecticut College


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