On flames and sources

[Kevin O'Gorman]

In article <240 at magnus.UUCP> mml at magnus.UUCP (Mike Levin) writes:
]In article <417 at icus.UUCP> lenny at icus.UUCP (Lenny Tropiano) writes:
]>
]>|>sources group would be useful.  If Lenny's willing to do that, great.
]>|>Lenny: can you handle keeping all the stuff online and available for
]>|>anonymous uucp?
]>|>
]>
]>If I would take the responsibily of being the unix-pc.sources moderator,
]>I would have a little learning to do.  Yes, I would allow anon-uucp 
]>pickups, and keep the sources online.  There isn't a *big* volume of
]>that either, so storage wouldn't be too much of a problem.   I haven't
]>gotten that many replies... most of them are split 1/2 and 1/2 about
]>making unix-pc.sources moderated.
]>

There's a confusion of functions here: There's no necessary connection
between moderating a group and archiving it.  I believe that there are
moderators on the larger net who are NOT also archive sites for various
reasons, and I know there are archives elsewhere than at the site with
the moderator.  You want archives, that's fine.  I already archive almost
everything on floppies (sorry, can't keep it all on-line), and there may
be non-UNIX-PC sites that can keep it online.  About the only thing a
moderator can contribute to this is to aid in cataloging by putting
definitive volume and issue numbers on things.  I'm not sure if all
moderators do this now.

]
]I feel somewhat responsible for starting this whole ruckus, with an article
]I posted urging folks to not *cross-post*, and suggesting that a moderated
]sources group would be a good idea.  I would just like to say that there has
]been a *bit* of software posted which was incomplete, not ported to the 3B1,
]etc.  I say if Lenny is *WILLING* to moderate this group, I'm all for it.  I
]think that's a good way to ensure some continuity.  For those folks who wish
]to post little scripts, etc., we could *also* have an un-moderated group.
]For example:
]
]		unix-pc.sources (moderated)	Fully supported sources
]		unix-pc.uucp (un-moderated)	Uucp related things ONLY.
]		unix-pc.test (un-moderated)	For testing new sites, etc.
]		unix-pc.general (un-moderated)	Discussions, questions, etc.
]		unix-pc.software (un-moderated) Scripts, bug-reports, programs.
]		unix-pc.hardware (un-moderated) Hardware (drives, tapes, etc.)

I think there's a bit of confusion here, too.  Your goal is to eliminate
cross posting and inappropriate stuff in the sources group.  I don't know
anything that stops cross-posting for certain, and only constant admonitions
on the net seems to have any effect at all.  I urge you to continue this.
I have even forgotten this once or twice and cross-posted within unix-pc.

The larger net seems to have found that the only thing that stops inappropriate
posting is to have ONLY moderated groups for software.  Otherwise, folks who
have partly-baked software will post it to the 'easy' group (in this case,
unix-pc.software).  There are the percieved advantages of 'ease' and also that
the stuff gets distributed faster because it doesn't have to find a mail
path to the moderator (a surprisingly big problem, sometimes) and it doesn't
have to wait to get to the top of the moderator's FIFO queue.

One might also consider whether you REALLY want to separate the software
postings in this way.  Some scripts are just as important as the larger
sources.  I'm thinking specifically of the /bin/ccc script (which I keep
in /usr/local/bin/cc, by the way) which I think has evolved into one of the
neatest hacks on this machine.  Under the above scheme, it would get posted
to unix-pc.software, and not get archived.  This would be a pity.

Finally, I think dividing the unix-pc net any finer is not very meaningful.
The usual reason to divide groups is to accomodate people who want to read
some of the stuff and not all of it.  I have noticed that many of the postings
supporting these ideas acknowledge that almost all unix-pc readers read all
the groups, and are likely to continue to do so.  The volume of traffic is
simply too small to be a big burden on anyone's time, and it is kind of neat
to keep in touch with what's going on.  The only large-volume stuff has
been occasional big sources, and that already has a separate group.

If you haven't guessed already, I am voting *AGAINST* moderating, and also
against any new unix-pc groups.  I also agree with a recent poster who noted
that we may as well drop the unix-pc.uucp group, on account of miniscule
volume and all the discussions that might otherwise go there seem to fit
nicely in unix-pc.general.

It would be nice to have one or more official archivists, though.  I can and
already do archive on an unofficial basis, and can redistribute things on
request.  I do not have a catalog, but I have a full tray of stuff from
THE STORE! and another tray from the net (about 100-150 floppies each).
I can also put stuff on AT&T cartridge tape.

]
]I think that by thus adding only *2* groups, we get things much better
]organized.  And, once again, I strongly urge *NO CROSSPOSTING* within these
]groups.  Anybody who reads one, reads the others (if they're interested), so
]it's bothersome and useless.

Yes, Mike, I'll try to remember.

]
]Lenny, you have my vote.
]
]
]					Mike Levin


---
Kevin O'Gorman ( kevin at kosman ) voice: 805-984-8042
  Vital Computer Systems, 5115 Beachcomber, Oxnard, CA  93035